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Unread 07-17-2008, 11:38 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Ringo_Tan View Post

And, I don't see how pink = gothic lolita. Maybe Pink x Black, but, when paired with the matching accessories, wouldn't it turn out to be more of a Punk or casual coordinate than a gothic?
Like I said there's more to what classifies an outfit than just color.

And just because I'm REALLY bored I’ll try to describe the outfit. which hopefully will kill some time 'till i find something better to do XD

I was wearing this OP

With white socks and these shoes. (and I know what you're thinking but they look a lot better when worn] .

My makeup was basically a lot likethis. [note, thats not pic of me) Only I did my eyes and the rest of my face was pretty natural.

I was also wearing three layered cross pendant necklace which I can’t find picture of. Basically it looked like I was wearing three cross pendant necklaces and each was longer than the other and each had a bigger cross. The cross itself look’s lot like this and the chain was pretty classy and sparkly with some rhinestones in it.

I was also wearing pink bat shaped backpack which I also cant find picture of :/

And my hair was up in high pigtails and messed it up bit more than usual. And since I have really curly hair it ended up looking somewhat like this. only the curls weren’t so loose and bit more tight. it was basically the curly hired equivalent of teased pigtails.





…I'm not sure if I did good job at describing the outfit but re-reding this I realized it might all look like crazy mess lol I really wish I had camera so I could take pics ^^;;

I can kind of see why some might consider this outfit punk but I honestly don’t. punk loli is bit less coordinated and far more… edgy and crazy and less...elegant? if you catch my drift? This outfit had far more of creepy dolly feel that you get with goth loli and far less of that edgy rag doll of the punk loli IMO *shrug*
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Unread 07-17-2008, 11:46 PM   #17
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i actually see where you are coming from. there was a girl i saw at an anime convention who was wearing an all white outfit, those exact shoes, cross necklace and a circle headdress. it was all white so most people would automatically think OH SHIRO but it was quite obviously gothic lolita.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 07:23 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Kaimana Scarlet View Post
i actually see where you are coming from. there was a girl i saw at an anime convention who was wearing an all white outfit, those exact shoes, cross necklace and a circle headdress. it was all white so most people would automatically think OH SHIRO but it was quite obviously gothic lolita.

good to her I made SOME sense, and someone understood what I was saying XD

and yeah goth loli in white (shiro goth loli?) is done by mana all the time and I’ve see it done it streets snap too few times.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 11:45 AM   #19
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Okay see that makes sense. I hear all the time "it's not the brand it's the cut of the dress" which never made sense to me, but "it's not the brand it's the way you wear it" does.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 01:26 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by *Le* View Post
Like I said there's more to what classifies an outfit than just color.

And just because I'm REALLY bored I’ll try to describe the outfit. which hopefully will kill some time 'till i find something better to do XD

I was wearing this OP

With white socks and these shoes. (and I know what you're thinking but they look a lot better when worn] .

My makeup was basically a lot likethis. [note, thats not pic of me) Only I did my eyes and the rest of my face was pretty natural.

I was also wearing three layered cross pendant necklace which I can’t find picture of. Basically it looked like I was wearing three cross pendant necklaces and each was longer than the other and each had a bigger cross. The cross itself look’s lot like this and the chain was pretty classy and sparkly with some rhinestones in it.

I was also wearing pink bat shaped backpack which I also cant find picture of :/

And my hair was up in high pigtails and messed it up bit more than usual. And since I have really curly hair it ended up looking somewhat like this. only the curls weren’t so loose and bit more tight. it was basically the curly hired equivalent of teased pigtails.





…I'm not sure if I did good job at describing the outfit but re-reding this I realized it might all look like crazy mess lol I really wish I had camera so I could take pics ^^;;

I can kind of see why some might consider this outfit punk but I honestly don’t. punk loli is bit less coordinated and far more… edgy and crazy and less...elegant? if you catch my drift? This outfit had far more of creepy dolly feel that you get with goth loli and far less of that edgy rag doll of the punk loli IMO *shrug*
Even now, I'm still not seeing the goth. The necklace seems mismatched with the rest of the outfit. The outfit doesn't sound coordinated, it does sound crazy and less elegant. More like punk, to me. Especially with the OP itself.

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i actually see where you are coming from. there was a girl i saw at an anime convention who was wearing an all white outfit, those exact shoes, cross necklace and a circle headdress. it was all white so most people would automatically think OH SHIRO but it was quite obviously gothic lolita.
...I thought shiro was an offset of gothic? Besides, the only thing you need to be shiro is an all white outfit, regardless of anything else. I've always thought Shiro could go gothic or sweet.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 05:13 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ringo_Tan View Post
Even now, I'm still not seeing the goth. The necklace seems mismatched with the rest of the outfit. The outfit doesn't sound coordinated, it does sound crazy and less elegant. More like punk, to me. Especially with the OP itself.
I think you need to get off the mind set of pink is sweet and anything that’s not sweet worn with it = mismatched. And that black is goth. Colors are not what classifies lolita but how its worn. Most of the time I do sweet loli in black.

Maybe you’re too new to fashion to quite grasp this (and to be honest perhaps I should have posted the outfit seeing since most people here are quite new and might get hell confused with the post)

The cross and the dark eye makeup is what makes the outfit goth, since they are infact gothic symbols and/or things heavily tied to goth fashion.


Take under consideration this picture for example. If you changed the color he was wearing to pink, he’d still be goth loli.


But hell like I said I guess I COULD understand why some would think this punk loli. Since most people get punk and goth confused. I just have a different idea of what’s punk loli. Mostly because I was involved in the punk and goth scene for while (still am really) and what most people consider punk loli just looks like casual loli to me. like lot of putumayo stuff lol
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Unread 07-18-2008, 05:18 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by *Le* View Post
I think you need to get off the mind set of pink is sweet and anything that’s not sweet worn with it = mismatched. And that black is goth. Colors are not what classifies lolita but how its worn. Most of the time I do sweet loli in black.

Maybe you’re too new to fashion to quite grasp this (and to be honest perhaps I should have posted the outfit seeing since most people here are quite new and might get hell confused with the post)

The cross and the dark eye makeup is what makes the outfit goth, since they are infact gothic symbols and/or things heavily tied to goth fashion.


Take under consideration this picture for example. If you changed the color he was wearing to pink, he’d still be goth loli.


But hell like I said I guess I COULD understand why some would think this punk loli. Since most people get punk and goth confused. I just have a different idea of what’s punk loli. Mostly because I was involved in the punk and goth scene for while (still am really) and what most people consider punk loli just looks like casual loli to me. like lot of putumayo stuff lol

I'm NOT on the mindset of pink = sweet. The LOOK of the dress. The mass amount of bows, AS WELL as the color scheme amount to it looking sweet. Putting a cross on something, and some dark make up doesn't make something goth, it makes you look like a mismatched fool. The way you described it makes it look like a regular sweet outfit, but, you just added a cross and some dark make up. It just doesn't match.
And, as with the Mana thing, if it was switched to pink, it would look sweet to me. It looks sweet NOW. Or, if a dusty pink, classic.

I don't know, maybe I'm biased because I've never seen it done, and I'm used to see gothic done in black, but, I really don't see how that could ever be gothic lolita. You changed two things to the outfit. Whoop.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 05:32 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Ringo_Tan View Post
I'm NOT on the mindset of pink = sweet. The LOOK of the dress. The mass amount of bows, AS WELL as the color scheme amount to it looking sweet. Putting a cross on something, and some dark make up doesn't make something goth, it makes you look like a mismatched fool. The way you described it makes it look like a regular sweet outfit, but, you just added a cross and some dark make up. It just doesn't match.
And, as with the Mana thing, if it was switched to pink, it would look sweet to me. It looks sweet NOW. Or, if a dusty pink, classic.

I don't know, maybe I'm biased because I've never seen it done, and I'm used to see gothic done in black, but, I really don't see how that could ever be gothic lolita. You changed two things to the outfit. Whoop.
evidently you ARE in the mindset that pink = sweet. And bows also don’t = instant sweet. its lolita fshion. bows are everywhere, it adds to the overtly cute look. You don’t quite seem to get what makes something gothic, specially in lolita. What makes an outfit goth IS as simple as accessories and makeup. Lolitas are in core all the same and what changes category from category IS makeup and accessories. The shape and general esthetic is more or less the same for every category.


and its quite all right if you don’t like goth lolis in pastels and think they look stupid etc. but that doesn’t change the fact that they are goth and not sweet.

As for the mana thing he IS goth loli, EGL if you wanna get all technical. Which is bit more refined and generlly far less cutesy and lacey than your averge goth loli. (mana in sweet? I’d kill to see that XD)


perhaps you need to study the fashion bit more....

Last edited by *Le* : 07-18-2008 at 05:37 PM.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 06:48 PM   #24
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evidently you ARE in the mindset that pink = sweet. And bows also don’t = instant sweet. its lolita fshion. bows are everywhere, it adds to the overtly cute look. You don’t quite seem to get what makes something gothic, specially in lolita. What makes an outfit goth IS as simple as accessories and makeup. Lolitas are in core all the same and what changes category from category IS makeup and accessories. The shape and general esthetic is more or less the same for every category.


and its quite all right if you don’t like goth lolis in pastels and think they look stupid etc. but that doesn’t change the fact that they are goth and not sweet.

As for the mana thing he IS goth loli, EGL if you wanna get all technical. Which is bit more refined and generlly far less cutesy and lacey than your averge goth loli. (mana in sweet? I’d kill to see that XD)


perhaps you need to study the fashion bit more....
I'm sorry, its just funny to me that you think a bow doesn't mean sweet, but a cross and dark makeup means gothic? To me, Gothic lolita is that style right between classic and sweet. Not many frills or bows, but, not as plain as classic. Still mature. The point of sweet lolita is to look like a young, innocent child, and the point of Gothic Lolita is too look darker, and, I just don't see how that dress could be gothic lolita, even with dark eye makeup and a cross. It doesn't match anything else.
And, the point of lolita is also coordination, save for punk. Which, is why I think your outfit is punk. The Shoes + Dress doesn't match the Makeup + Necklace. For an outfit to be gothic lolita, there still has to be something ON the dress, that can at least make it go both to sweet and gothic, but, even when I try to piece your outfit together in my head, it still doesn't look gothic. I'm sorry, it just doesn't. Its just how I feel, it's just my opinion. I don't see the gothic in your outfit.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 07:47 PM   #25
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I'm sorry, its just funny to me that you think a bow doesn't mean sweet, but a cross and dark makeup means gothic? To me, Gothic lolita is that style right between classic and sweet. Not many frills or bows, but, not as plain as classic. Still mature. The point of sweet lolita is to look like a young, innocent child, and the point of Gothic Lolita is too look darker, and, I just don't see how that dress could be gothic lolita, even with dark eye makeup and a cross. It doesn't match anything else.
And, the point of lolita is also coordination, save for punk. Which, is why I think your outfit is punk. The Shoes + Dress doesn't match the Makeup + Necklace. For an outfit to be gothic lolita, there still has to be something ON the dress, that can at least make it go both to sweet and gothic, but, even when I try to piece your outfit together in my head, it still doesn't look gothic. I'm sorry, it just doesn't. Its just how I feel, it's just my opinion. I don't see the gothic in your outfit.

I’m sorry but coming from the person who think mana is sweet loli this all means very little. i dont think you understand what gothic lolita is.

And yes you ARE correct The point of sweet lolita is to look like a young, innocent child, and the point of Gothic Lolita is to look darker. The ‘darker’ look was achieved by the accessories and makeup I was wearing. Making it look far less happy-go-lucky and far more…dark.

as for your definition of gothic lolita, you re describing what is commonly known as “EGL”, which would be things like moitie etc. the average gothic lolita (without the elegant in it) can and do wear just as many frills and bows as the sweet lolis, only they take darker twist on to it via makeup and/or accessories. How much darker you choose to make it of course is completely up the the person.

And once again you're stuck in pink frills = sweet mode. The only reason you don’t think that the outfit matches is because you think a pink frilly dress is sweet loli, and sweet lolis wear sweet things. Once you take under consideration that I was NOT going for sweet loli but instead goth then its not miss matched. And it was not just cross and dark makeup that I used to turn it goth (though I think that would have worked well too) it was an on going theme with cross earrings and bat backpack etc.

Last edited by *Le* : 07-18-2008 at 08:26 PM.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 08:35 PM   #26
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I’m sorry but coming from the person who think mana is sweet loli this all means very little. i dont think you understand what gothic is.

And yes you ARE correct The point of sweet lolita is to look like a young, innocent child, and the point of Gothic Lolita is to look darker. The ‘darker’ look was achieved by the accessories and makeup I was wearing. Making it look far less happy-go-lucky and far more…dark.

as for your definition of gothic lolita, you re describing what is commonly known as “EGL”, which would be things like moitie etc. the average gothic lolita (without the elegant in it) can and do wear just as many frills and bows as the sweet only they take darker twist on to it via makeup and/or accessories. How much darker you choose to make it of course is completely up the the person.

And once again you're stuck in pink frills = sweet mode. The only reason you don’t think that the outfit matches is because you think a pink frilly dress is sweet loli and sweet loli wear sweet things. Once you take under consideration that I was NOT going for sweet loli but instead goth then its not miss matched. And it was not just cross and dark makeup that I used to turn it goth (though I think that would have worked well too) it was an on going theme with cross earrings and bat backpack etc.
Now your just plain confusing me. Yes they take a darker twist on it. BUT THE MAIN COLOR IS STILL DARK! DARK_DARK_DARK! Even in the example, its still DARK! I have yet to see gothic lolita done in pink, even in the bibles!! I am taking into consideration that you where going for gothic, but, I'm seeing NO MATCH! All I see is someone wearing mismatched sweet lolita. Thats IT. To me there is nothing in the dress that looks remotely gothic. Even in the dress, there needs to be SOMETHING! And, in that dress, I'm seeing nothing. I'm just not seeing the matching, and I don't think I will ever see it, because your just assuming that I'm thinking pink and bows and frills equals sweet lolita, which, I am NOT. I'm saying that, even with that, its still not gothic, regardless of the color. I'm looking into the style of the dress and the decoration. And, when I try to piece my outfit together, it still doesn't look right! Even gothic lolita matches! I see no crosses on that dress! I see the dress, and the shoes and the hairstyle I think sweet. I think of the backpack, the makeup and the earrings/necklace, I think gothic. BUT, when you put them together, you don't get gothic lolita! And you don't get sweet lolita! It just plain doesn't match! Is mismatching, which, is why I believe it to be more punk thank anything. Even with the accessories, there still needs to be a hint of gothic in the dress somehow, and, I'm just not seeing that. I'm sorry, its just how I see it. I don't care if I'm being dumb, or being a bitch or stupid or whatever, I don't care, It just doesn't seem gothic lolita to me!!
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Unread 07-18-2008, 09:50 PM   #27
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Now your just plain confusing me. Yes they take a darker twist on it. BUT THE MAIN COLOR IS STILL DARK! DARK_DARK_DARK! Even in the example, its still DARK! I have yet to see gothic lolita done in pink, even in the bibles!! I am taking into consideration that you where going for gothic, but, I'm seeing NO MATCH! All I see is someone wearing mismatched sweet lolita. Thats IT. To me there is nothing in the dress that looks remotely gothic. Even in the dress, there needs to be SOMETHING! And, in that dress, I'm seeing nothing. I'm just not seeing the matching, and I don't think I will ever see it, because your just assuming that I'm thinking pink and bows and frills equals sweet lolita, which, I am NOT. I'm saying that, even with that, its still not gothic, regardless of the color. I'm looking into the style of the dress and the decoration. And, when I try to piece my outfit together, it still doesn't look right! Even gothic lolita matches! I see no crosses on that dress! I see the dress, and the shoes and the hairstyle I think sweet. I think of the backpack, the makeup and the earrings/necklace, I think gothic. BUT, when you put them together, you don't get gothic lolita! And you don't get sweet lolita! It just plain doesn't match! Is mismatching, which, is why I believe it to be more punk thank anything. Even with the accessories, there still needs to be a hint of gothic in the dress somehow, and, I'm just not seeing that. I'm sorry, its just how I see it. I don't care if I'm being dumb, or being a bitch or stupid or whatever, I don't care, It just doesn't seem gothic lolita to me!!
oh god.

just because you haven’t seen it before doesn’t mean is not done/cant be done. Please go pick up a KERA mag or something. Its not my fault you’re under exposed. gothic =/=black. gothic can be done in lot different colors and this includes lolita fashion. Its just miss guided stereotype. (did I not just showed you the EGL’s sheppard in white?)

and no, a dress doesn’t need to have some kind of gothic appliqué or something in order for it to work with goth (where do you get this?) I’ve even seen gothic done with quite a few childish and sweet AP prints.

case in point Korean girl wearing toy parade in goth (honestly tht spiked crown is SOOOO awesome XD)…and just for the hell of it here’s her doing it in sweet.

a goth loli is simply darker version of a sweet loli. And not just literally (which is where I think your confusion comes from) but in the whole…feel of the outfit. Is not as HAPPY and is a little more gloomy and maybe a bit creepy and/or a bit edgier which is what i meant by 'darker'. sorry to have confused you.

And here’s two pics of choko-nyan in what most would consider goth and maybe classic loli too and in OMG NOT black.

I understand that you think that anything that’s not EGL with clean cut line and no bows etc isn’t goth, but unfortunately the fashion doesn't revolve round you and your opinions.


And like I've said before you don’t understand gothic lolita etc. and I’m fine with the punk loli label since most people idea of punk loli shit to do with punk. And bah blah I already said it XD


Oh and here’s a pic of the dress in black...just for the hell of it. and guess what? Most would consider that goth loli even though its got OMG BOWS AND FRILLS :O

Last edited by *Le* : 07-18-2008 at 10:06 PM.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 10:04 PM   #28
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oh god.

just because you haven’t seen it before doesn’t mean is not done/cant be done. Please go pick up a KERA mag or something. Its not my fault you’re under exposed. gothic =/=black. gothic can be done in lot different colors and this includes lolita fashion. Its just miss guided stereotype. (did I not just showed you the EGL’s sheppard in white?)

and no, a dress doesn’t need to have some kind of gothic appliqué or something in order for it to work with goth (where do you get this?) I’ve even seen gothic done with quite a few childish and sweet AP prints.

case in point Korean girl wearing toy parade in goth (honestly tht spiked crown is SOOOO awesome XD)…and just for the hell of it here’s her doing it in sweet.

a goth loli is simply darker version of a sweet loli. And not just literally (which is where I think your confusion comes from) but in the whole…feel of the outfit. Is not as HAPPY and is a little more gloomy and creepy nd maybe a bit edgier which is what i meant by 'darker'. sorry to have confused you.

And here’s two pics of choko-nyan in what most would consider goth and maybe classic loli too and in OMG NOT black.

I understand that you think that anything that’s not EGL with clean cut line and no bows etc isn’t goth, but unfortunately the fashion doesn't revolve round you and your opinions.


And like I've said before you don’t understand gothic lolita etc. and I’m fine with the punk loli label since most people idea of punk loli shit to do with punk. And bah blah I already said it XD


Oh and here’s a pic of the dress in black...just for the hell of it. and guess what? Most would consider that goth loli even though its got OMG BOWS AND FRILLS :O

The first picture, just kind of fits with my point. Your accesories don't match your dress, where as, the ribbon to Mana's dress is black, as well as his necklace. Its a nice hint of a contrasting color.
And, you even said, "if this dress WAS pinK, it would still be Gothic". I said that if it was pink it would look gothic to me. I never said Mana WAS gothic. Your putting words into my mouth.


For the toy parade one, both look sweet to me, too....

As for "Choconyan" it seems classic to me. Not goth.

And, for the last link, I can see that as goth. But look, HER ACCESSORIES MATCH HER DRESS! Same with for the Toy Parade one. There is black in the dress and black accessories, but, there is also pink in the dress. Pink accessories would work too. And white.


And, oh no, I'm just going by everything I've ever read on lolita and gothic lolita ever.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 10:24 PM   #29
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Braking my replies in part 'cos it makes it easier for me to reply, just FYI.


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The first picture, just kind of fits with my point. Your accesories don't match your dress, where as, the ribbon to Mana's dress is black, as well as his necklace. Its a nice hint of a contrasting color.
And, you even said, "if this dress WAS pinK, it would still be Gothic". I said that if it was pink it would look gothic to me. I never said Mana WAS gothic. Your putting words into my mouth.
...what?! i'm gonna reply to what i understand.

i dont quite get what your saying but my whole outfit was color coordinated. everything was either pink or white.

and yes I said that if the dress I posted earlier was pink it would still look gothic.

and you said:

Quote:
And, as with the Mana thing, if it was switched to pink, it would look sweet to me. It looks sweet NOW. Or, if a dusty pink, classic.
that's a direct quote from you....so I don’t get some of the post…O.o



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For the toy parade one, both look sweet to me, too....

As for "Choconyan" it seems classic to me. Not goth.
again the fashion does not revolve around your opinion. You have to take under consideration what a goth loli is (which I’ve explained before and wont do again...you dont have to take my word for it either just look it up.)

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And, for the last link, I can see that as goth.

oh? but i though you said the dress coulnt be goth regrdless of color? :P

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But look, HER ACCESSORIES MATCH HER DRESS! Same with for the Toy Parade one. There is black in the dress and black accessories, but, there is also pink in the dress. Pink accessories would work too. And white.

....well yeah color coordination is big part of the fashion....again i dont get this post.
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Unread 07-18-2008, 10:39 PM   #30
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Whatever, I'm done. -__- Because, you seem to be under the fact that my opinion doesn't mean shit to the fashion yet yours does. I'm only going by every single think I've read on lolita,and gothic lolita that the colors are DARK colors. And, I haven't seen gothic lolita done it pink, so maybe I'm biased. Maybe I just want to make things simple for myself, because the Gothic = Dark, and Sweet = Light mentality is so much easier to follow. I don't know maybe I'm just saying all that to be a bitch. It just seems to me that your coordinate doesn't seem gothic lolita, it seems Punk Lolita, and its just how I FEEL. Like you even said, my opinion isn't fact. -__-

And, you never said the cross was pink. EVER.
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