Go Back   Cosplay.com > Fashion > EGL

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Unread 07-19-2008, 12:32 AM   #31
*Le*
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo_Tan View Post
Whatever, I'm done. -__- Because, you seem to be under the fact that my opinion doesn't mean shit to the fashion yet yours does. I'm only going by every single think I've read on lolita,and gothic lolita that the colors are DARK colors. And, I haven't seen gothic lolita done it pink, so maybe I'm biased. Maybe I just want to make things simple for myself, because the Gothic = Dark, and Sweet = Light mentality is so much easier to follow. I don't know maybe I'm just saying all that to be a bitch. It just seems to me that your coordinate doesn't seem gothic lolita, it seems Punk Lolita, and its just how I FEEL. Like you even said, my opinion isn't fact. -__-

And, you never said the cross was pink. EVER.
the thing is, I’m NOT stating my opinion in alot of what i'm saying but just the general opinion. I’m one of the people who think that black does not a goth loli make. but most people seem to think so :/ like in the last picture I posted for example, that IS goth loli but personally I wouldn’t call it goth loli. 'cos I believe that to be goth loli you must have SOME gothic element to your clothes (black is not a gothic element...everyone wears black. even preps) but alas, most people seem to think so, so hell.

I just think you have to distinguish between your opinion and what actually is, which you don’t seem to be doing much. and yes just because you haven’t seen goth loli in pink, or blue, or green doesn’t mean it cant be done (or that they don’t exist) so I do find your opinion quite biased. it HAS been done before, I’m lmost certain of it (I highly doubt I’m the first...though it would be hella cool if i was XD) though I cant seem to find picture at the moment. mostly 'cos I don’t hive my picture files with me so I gotta work with what alredy on my photo bucket or whats currently on the net.

lolita is not about coping everything you see, and if you haven’t seen it then you shouldn’t do it. there’s a lot of room for you to make it your own etc.


and honestly, I’m tierd of explaining gothic lolita to you. you're making up your own rules (which i guess is fine, but don’t get mad t those who don’t.) you don’t even think mana's gothic unless he's wearing balck for whatever reason…which is just…insane IMHO O.o


and the cross was not pink, it's metallic (like the one i posted) with white rhinestones matching the one ones on its chain (which I guess I forgot to say that *shrug*) but hell even if the rhinestones in it where black I’d still look good IMO. maybe even better, 'cos the crosses in mine kind of blend in with the outfit too much, to the point where they might not be noticeable or AS noticeable as I want it to be. I’d be nice if the cross stand out bit more. And a black one would match my hair and bring out my eyes more…I might switch it *shrug*

oh and when i was speaking of your opinion not being fact I was mostly talking bout your opinion on what goth loli is and not that of my dress…but seeing since you have a very skewed idea of what goth loli is, it sort of does make your opinion bit less valuable.

Last edited by *Le* : 07-19-2008 at 12:34 AM.
*Le* is offline  
 
Unread 07-19-2008, 06:41 PM   #32
passer-by
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6
I really don’t mean to stir up anything (specially since you’ve all seemed to have dropped it)
but I just wanted to say a couple of things.

First is that I’m also positive you aren’t the first one to do goth loli in pastels without any black in it etc. I’m positive I’ve seen it somewhere else too (most likely streets snaps from either G&lB or kera or maybe in daily lolita)

I don’t know, the outfit just doesn’t…amaze me. which is probably why I think you’re not the first to do it. if you where I would imagine I would be a little more shocked or amused by it since I’ve been into the fashion for a while now. But don’t get me wrong it’s a really cool outfit!

Unfortunately the only thing I can think of as far as it being done is this post made on egl.

community.livejournal.com/egl/10700731.html

a lot of v-kei performers do it too or come incredibly close to it, kaya had a shoot in the G&LB where he was wearing a red AP dress and even though it was coordinated in a sweet way I couldn’t help but think there was something very goth about it. which probably had something to do with kayas makeup. I don’t have the picture I’m speaking of, but i‘m sure you could find it if you looked for it.


also, I think a lot of the new lolitas just take things like the lolita handbook or lolitafashion.org far too seriously. things written there is a brake down of the basics of lolita, its basically a ‘lolita for dummies’ guide. With black is goth, and pink is sweet, floral is contry and plaid is punk. Along with Always wear a petticoat and bloomers, don’t wear visible makeup and the list can go on and on really. The fashion goes far and beyond what is written there. And you need to stay active in the lolita scene to realize that. Its all just a VERY basic guide to the style to help out those who are new to it. Best thing I can recommend is looking at pictures of lolitas often I guess. Stay active in communities like daily lolita where pictures are posted constantly and that will help you get a broader look at the fashion. also taking notice of the Japanese scene by looking at street snaps from either the bible or kera…which would be like the Japanese version of daily lolita only in a magazine and not on the net.

Adds by lolita companies specially those published on the bibles are generally very ‘safe’. They’re trying to make whatever product they’re selling appeal to the most costumers so if you notice everything is very much plain. Just because you haven’t seen it in an add doesn't at all mean it shouldn’t be done.
passer-by is offline  
Unread 07-19-2008, 07:03 PM   #33
Meiki
Registered User
 
Meiki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,300
I kind of agree with you on some points, but I tend to disagree on your stance of bending the rules. Yes, various sites that you mentioned are basic how-to sites. However, there is a line as to what is lolita and what is not. And for that matter, I'd much rather people take those kind of things seriously when they are starting out, so they can get the basics down. Yes, you can understand the fashion, but fashion is like art. You have to understand the rules before you step outside the.

Also, the girls in that photoshoot look like sweet lolitas to me. Piercings and tattoos do not a gothic lolita make, I've seen plenty of sweet girls with them.
Meiki is offline  
Unread 07-19-2008, 07:16 PM   #34
Ringo_Tan
It Came From Outer Space!
 
Ringo_Tan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meiki View Post
I kind of agree with you on some points, but I tend to disagree on your stance of bending the rules. Yes, various sites that you mentioned are basic how-to sites. However, there is a line as to what is lolita and what is not. And for that matter, I'd much rather people take those kind of things seriously when they are starting out, so they can get the basics down. Yes, you can understand the fashion, but fashion is like art. You have to understand the rules before you step outside the.

Also, the girls in that photoshoot look like sweet lolitas to me. Piercings and tattoos do not a gothic lolita make, I've seen plenty of sweet girls with them.

I agree here. I'm not exactly a beginner, I have some good outfits, but, I have royally fucked up lolita in the past. But, even when I am a super seasoned lolita, I'm still just sticking to the handbook. Its just easier for me, than to have to stop and go over- "Yes well THIS is lolita like, but, when paired with this, will it not be?". I guess I'm just super simple like that. I guess I'm just unoriginal like that. :P

And, those girls are totally sweet. o.o I hate how all these girls with piercings or tattoos are insecure about them because they want to do sweet. Neither of them matter in the fashion. o.o
__________________
I fully belive that I AM Yukino Miyazawa
Ringo_Tan is offline  
Unread 07-19-2008, 07:35 PM   #35
Meiki
Registered User
 
Meiki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo_Tan View Post
I agree here. I'm not exactly a beginner, I have some good outfits, but, I have royally fucked up lolita in the past. But, even when I am a super seasoned lolita, I'm still just sticking to the handbook. Its just easier for me, than to have to stop and go over- "Yes well THIS is lolita like, but, when paired with this, will it not be?". I guess I'm just super simple like that. I guess I'm just unoriginal like that. :P

And, those girls are totally sweet. o.o I hate how all these girls with piercings or tattoos are insecure about them because they want to do sweet. Neither of them matter in the fashion. o.o
Yeah, I don't always stick to the handbook (I've got a dress covered in dinosaurs for godsake) but I think there are only so many changes you can make before it just doesn't look like the fashion anymore you know?
Meiki is offline  
Unread 07-19-2008, 09:40 PM   #36
Ringo_Tan
It Came From Outer Space!
 
Ringo_Tan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 232
Quote:
Yeah, I don't always stick to the handbook (I've got a dress covered in dinosaurs for godsake) but I think there are only so many changes you can make before it just doesn't look like the fashion anymore you know?
Which is why its easy to stay to the handbook and such, instead of going off on your own, until you have a good idea. I don't think Gothic Lolita done in pink is Gothic Lolita, unless it REALLY blows me away. =/ And,if it was said "Gothic Lolita can be done in ALL COLORS, accessories make the the dress gothic!" a lot of people would be confused, especially newbies.
__________________
I fully belive that I AM Yukino Miyazawa
Ringo_Tan is offline  
Unread 07-20-2008, 12:22 AM   #37
passer-by
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6
…well I never said anything about bending the rules. Or at lest I didn't mean to. I’m a pretty traditional lolita. And I agree there's only so much you can stretch the fashion before it becomes something else. What I did say was that there is far more to the fashion than what is written in those places. And that that is a very basic guide, last time I checked it doesn't even touch the subject of casual lolita. And just general shapes of dresses, they’re not all the same and some are made to worn without a petti. Or the fact that you can wear sandals or open toed shoes if the design is correct and the outfit is correct etc like I said the fashion goes beyond what written in those places...i didn't mean tOO far to the point where is not lolita though.
passer-by is offline  
Unread 07-20-2008, 12:22 AM   #38
*Le*
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by passer-by View Post
I really don’t mean to stir up anything (specially since you’ve all seemed to have dropped it)
but I just wanted to say a couple of things.

First is that I’m also positive you aren’t the first one to do goth loli in pastels without any black in it etc. I’m positive I’ve seen it somewhere else too (most likely streets snaps from either G&lB or kera or maybe in daily lolita)

I don’t know, the outfit just doesn’t…amaze me. which is probably why I think you’re not the first to do it. if you where I would imagine I would be a little more shocked or amused by it since I’ve been into the fashion for a while now. But don’t get me wrong it’s a really cool outfit!

Unfortunately the only thing I can think of as far as it being done is this post made on egl.

community.livejournal.com/egl/10700731.html

a lot of v-kei performers do it too or come incredibly close to it, kaya had a shoot in the G&LB where he was wearing a red AP dress and even though it was coordinated in a sweet way I couldn’t help but think there was something very goth about it. which probably had something to do with kayas makeup. I don’t have the picture I’m speaking of, but i‘m sure you could find it if you looked for it.


also, I think a lot of the new lolitas just take things like the lolita handbook or lolitafashion.org far too seriously. things written there is a brake down of the basics of lolita, its basically a ‘lolita for dummies’ guide. With black is goth, and pink is sweet, floral is contry and plaid is punk. Along with Always wear a petticoat and bloomers, don’t wear visible makeup and the list can go on and on really. The fashion goes far and beyond what is written there. And you need to stay active in the lolita scene to realize that. Its all just a VERY basic guide to the style to help out those who are new to it. Best thing I can recommend is looking at pictures of lolitas often I guess. Stay active in communities like daily lolita where pictures are posted constantly and that will help you get a broader look at the fashion. also taking notice of the Japanese scene by looking at street snaps from either the bible or kera…which would be like the Japanese version of daily lolita only in a magazine and not on the net.

Adds by lolita companies specially those published on the bibles are generally very ‘safe’. They’re trying to make whatever product they’re selling appeal to the most costumers so if you notice everything is very much plain. Just because you haven’t seen it in an add doesn't at all mean it shouldn’t be done.

Hmm well that LJ post could definitely work as a goth loli in pastels. But if it was called sweet loli I wouldn’t be bother at by at all really. with the skull ring, spikey watch and the tattoo and piercing do help get in to the more gothic side. Even the eye brows. I think its right in the fence of both, which is cool.

I couldn’t agree more with that second part though…I think lol

The lolita handbook was made well after I learned how to be a good lolita. And to be honest I’ve only read it once, when it was released and it was definitely pretty good (a few things that wierded me out here and there but on the whole I remember thinking it was damn good). Just skimming through it again just now I’d have to agree everything is very basic.
its definitely good for the ultra basic basics but it doesn't get the fashion as whole. Specially since there's a lot of things that incorporate more than one style of lolita etc. a lot of outfits are more than one category, even just by looking through daily loli you’d get a lot of outfits that are listed in more than one category. But I think getting too far into it confuses the newbie’s. once into the fashion I think you're generally expected to become active in communities etc and little by little they’ll get it.
*Le* is offline  
Unread 07-20-2008, 01:08 AM   #39
Meiki
Registered User
 
Meiki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Le* View Post
Hmm well that LJ post could definitely work as a goth loli in pastels. But if it was called sweet loli I wouldn’t be bother at by at all really. with the skull ring, spikey watch and the tattoo and piercing do help get in to the more gothic side. Even the eye brows. I think its right in the fence of both, which is cool.
See, piercings and tattoos and the way you style your eyebrows don't make a style to me. Those are things she would have even without the fashion, so little things like a bracelet and a ring don't change the style to me.
Meiki is offline  
Unread 07-20-2008, 02:45 AM   #40
*Le*
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meiki View Post
See, piercings and tattoos and the way you style your eyebrows don't make a style to me. Those are things she would have even without the fashion, so little things like a bracelet and a ring don't change the style to me.


I suppose to each their own but she definitely doesn't have the typical sweet loli look which is what sways it for me. and lot of these things really do have a lot to do with the end look. I agree piercings and tattoo does not a goth loli make but the way her makeup is (the really thin and high brows are very gothic look and something pretty common around the goth scene) combined with her obvious effort to sway away from sweet by adding spiked bracelet and skull rings does make the outfit look a lot darker IMO. None of these things by themselves would sway it enough for me but put together is another thing completely. Like I said its not uber gothic, but if she called that goth loli I wouldn’t disagree or anything as well as vise versa. It’s a bit bit of both for me, and can go either way really *shrug*
*Le* is offline  
Unread 07-20-2008, 06:20 AM   #41
passer-by
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6
To be honest I’ll never understand why things like piercing and tattoos and even the way you do your brows don’t matter to some in lolita. Things you have even without the fashion play a big part on the way you end up looking. It matters in every other fashion in the world.


Funny thing is I'm one of the ones that think it doesn't matter much…well at least as far tattoos and piercing go (to a certain extent anyway...most of the time it just adds a bit of a goth/punk rebelious edge) The weird goth brows are just a bit much for me. it works for goth loli but for sweet its just… D: …most goths just shave them off and then paint them on though. kudos to her for actually keeping some of it…must be hell to keep though






i realize that's probably paint on her face and not tattoos but lets pretend for the sake of the argument that it is
passer-by is offline  
Unread 07-20-2008, 09:33 AM   #42
*Le*
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by passer-by View Post
To be honest I’ll never understand why things like piercing and tattoos and even the way you do your brows don’t matter to some in lolita. Things you have even without the fashion play a big part on the way you end up looking. It matters in every other fashion in the world.


Funny thing is I'm one of the ones that think it doesn't matter much…well at least as far tattoos and piercing go (to a certain extent anyway...most of the time it just adds a bit of a goth/punk rebelious edge) The weird goth brows are just a bit much for me. it works for goth loli but for sweet its just… D: …most goths just shave them off and then paint them on though. kudos to her for actually keeping some of it…must be hell to keep though

You know I really agree.

as someone who is priced let me say that these things are a fashion statement and/or accessories. And the reason I do it (as well as most others) is to add a bit of a rebellious edge as you put it i guess.

It really bothers me when lolitas over look this for whatever reason. its part of my look, and it’s a completely conscious decision. I COULD take them off if I wanted to and look much more innocent and but I choose not to. And it DOES play a part in the way I end up looking…I don’t even know how people do it…do you like, pretend it isn’t there or imagine someone without it or something?...I just don’t get it.


I also think that there's a limit to the way you can do all these things and still be considered lolita. Most people don’t cross that line though. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone who I think is just FAR too pierced and tattooed to be considered lolita… I mean obviously I HAVE seen those kind of people but none of them have actually cared to be lolita. those kind of people are not very likely to take an interest in the fashion really lol
*Le* is offline  
Unread 07-20-2008, 01:00 PM   #43
Meiki
Registered User
 
Meiki's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Le* View Post
It really bothers me when lolitas over look this for whatever reason. its part of my look, and it’s a completely conscious decision. I COULD take them off if I wanted to and look much more innocent and but I choose not to. And it DOES play a part in the way I end up looking…I don’t even know how people do it…do you like, pretend it isn’t there or imagine someone without it or something?...I just don’t get it.
Because I go by the outfit. What if she (or any other pierced or tattooed lolita) wants to come off as sweet? It's not like she can get rid of her tattoos, and taking out piercings constantly is a pain. Her eyebrows could have been drawn-in I guess, but that would have looked really weird. I'm not ignoring them, I'm going by what the outfit says to me, not necessarily the normal attributes of the person.

...also I like how you said you were "priced." Made me picture someone with tattoos of price stickers.
Meiki is offline  
Unread 07-20-2008, 03:01 PM   #44
Ringo_Tan
It Came From Outer Space!
 
Ringo_Tan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meiki View Post
Because I go by the outfit. What if she (or any other pierced or tattooed lolita) wants to come off as sweet? It's not like she can get rid of her tattoos, and taking out piercings constantly is a pain. Her eyebrows could have been drawn-in I guess, but that would have looked really weird. I'm not ignoring them, I'm going by what the outfit says to me, not necessarily the normal attributes of the person.

...also I like how you said you were "priced." Made me picture someone with tattoos of price stickers.
I agree. Lolita is a fashion not a lifestyle. Is it fair for her to totally alter her regular appearance just to wear a pink dress, and be sweet lolita? No, it doesn't. Lolita is about clothes. The outfit is the main part of the dress. Why should she have to be called gothic lolita just because she has piercings, or tattoo's, or gothic styled eyebrows. Its the overall coordination, with her hair, accessories and the dress. Yes, her make up is a tad dark, but, it isn't super gothic. =/
__________________
I fully belive that I AM Yukino Miyazawa
Ringo_Tan is offline  
Unread 07-20-2008, 04:10 PM   #45
passer-by
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Le* View Post
You know I really agree.

as someone who is priced let me say that these things are a fashion statement and/or accessories. And the reason I do it (as well as most others) is to add a bit of a rebellious edge as you put it i guess.

It really bothers me when lolitas over look this for whatever reason. its part of my look, and it’s a completely conscious decision. I COULD take them off if I wanted to and look much more innocent and but I choose not to. And it DOES play a part in the way I end up looking…I don’t even know how people do it…do you like, pretend it isn’t there or imagine someone without it or something?...I just don’t get it.


I also think that there's a limit to the way you can do all these things and still be considered lolita. Most people don’t cross that line though. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone who I think is just FAR too pierced and tattooed to be considered lolita… I mean obviously I HAVE seen those kind of people but none of them have actually cared to be lolita. those kind of people are not very likely to take an interest in the fashion really lol
I used to have a few piercing too but took them off once I started getting into sweeter and more classic styles to look more innocent and doll like.

I’ve notice most people seem to think about it like its some kind of disability or something? Especially by those who don’t have them, which would be most of them. Everyone knows is there and that it changes the way you look but nobody wants to point it out or say it and they’re all “of course you can be loli with piercing! It doesn't change anything!” i feel its maybe not so much because they actually think so but because maybe they feel they’re being mean by doing so? Without really taking into account that the we put it there in the first place and it can be easily be taken off and that we WANT to look outside of the norm add a bit of edge onto us.

afcourse this is just a generlization of how i think most people who think it doesnt matter see it


@ Meiki & Ringo_Tan

You don’t seem to understand that things like piercing and (visible) tattoos are a fashion statement and are part of your fashion sence etc. like *le* said they’re completely conscious decisions made to make the person look a certain way.

I don’t think that a piercing or tattoo changes the outfit so much as to change the category of it but it does add quite a bit of a gothic/punk/alternative edge to it. and it has little to nothing to do with lolita being a lifestyle, neither is the tattoo or piercing. It’s part of the persons personal look and it’s a fashion accessory a more permanent accessory but an accessory none the less. And it should (and in all the other fashions in the world is) taken under account when considering what the persons look is. You don’t just…over look it or skip it. and look at ONLY the clothing. Its like seeing someone who wears converse all the time and then getting in to lolita and decide to wear their worn out converse and saying “Is it fair for me to totally alter her regular appearance just to wear a pink dress?”….

Piercing are not hard to take off at all (specially once in your nose) its like taking out the ones in your ears…its incredibly easy. I used to have 2 on each brow, a stud on the nose and another one under my lip. And I took them off quite frequently. You just have to make sure the whole doesn't close like you would with your ears. on some people it heals faster than other..i havent worn my piercing in about 9 months and they're still open. but i do know a few people who took them off for a couple of months and it closed compleatly.

And even if the person wants to look incredibly sweet they should have thought of that before they got tattooed, or simply take the piercing off. What you WANT to look like isn’t always what you end up looking like as I’m sure some of you have noticed…how many italolis are there out in the world right now. Just because they WANT to look like lolitas doesn't mean they do.

Last edited by passer-by : 07-20-2008 at 04:19 PM.
passer-by is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:53 PM.


Copyright 2002-2013 Cosplay.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
All comments and posts in our forums are the opinion of the respective poster.