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Unread 07-30-2016, 01:21 PM   #1
ShinobiXikyu
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Combining these Truly Victorian patterns?

Once again, figuring out patterns for the Anastasia court gown.
(References, and a historical photo of what the IRL court dress at the time would have looked like below. Also, the skirt line isn't actually as flared out as these images show, when standing still it follows a much more natural shape plus a trained extension on the back.
https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-st...2315527-12.gif
http://images6.fanpop.com/image/poll...59218_full.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._gown_1913.jpg )

Now that I've made a proper corset and am working on a petticoat, I decided to try and stick with Victorian patterns designed for wearing with those undergarments, so I'm making an attempt to marry together the movie with some historical accuracy. I found these two from trulyvictorian.net that I think will be fairly easy to alter into the right shapes for her gown (the skirt looks to be pretty easily altered, I'd just have to add a split seam in the front and make an underskirt and probably pare the train down a little, and for the bodice I'd need to maybe alter the neckline, change out the puff sleeves pattern for the split sleeves, and as its designed to be worn with or without sleeves I could definitely draft my own in, and probably change the button back to a zipper so I can dress myself), but I have a few questions from anyone who's used those patterns before I slap down my Visa to buy them.
Bodice and skirt patterns:
http://www.trulyvictorian.net/tvxcar...4&cat=6&page=1
http://www.trulyvictorian.net/tvxcar...0&cat=6&page=1

As it calls for wearing with my corset, when selecting the size I assume I should go off of my corseted waist measurements? The problem I'm having is that the sizing charts for those two don't really match up too well. I'd be the D or E size in the bodice going off my bust measurement (stupid odd numbered bust size), but the E or F size in the skirt on top of the fact that I CAN'T lace my waist in that much to match with the bust/hip measurement. Is it at least reasonably easy to adjust/combine the sizes together for a proper fit with those patterns? I'll definitely be mocking this conglomeration up before I make the final gown.

And my other big question, can I combine these two pieces into a one-piece dress, or are Victorian patterns designed to always be separates? And if they were always designed to be two pieces, here's a legitimate question for those more familiar with Victorian dress- WHYYYYYYYY?!?!? IT'S ANNOYING AS HELL TO WORK WITH!
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Originally Posted by Moofingham View Post
There's a vibe here that says "We're in this together!Through thick and thin fabric! Through cold water washes and burning hot irons! Though we might super glue ourselves to our projects, cut holes/gashes/oh-god-mom's-gonna-kill-me into the dining room table, we will stand strong together. Unless there is a 75% off sale at the Fabric store. Then you're on your own. And get the hell out of my way."<3
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Unread 07-30-2016, 04:38 PM   #2
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Oy, never worked with that brand. Have you tried contacting them to ask these questions?

If there isn't a response, my default is buy the big one, it's always easier to take in than let out.
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Unread 07-30-2016, 07:01 PM   #3
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A couple folks in our guild chapter are familiar with Truly Victorian and I've heard various things on their fit and complexity. Mainly that, they aren't terrible patterns - they're great for historical accuracy - but some are easy to mod while others are OMG TERRIBLE, and there's no way to know which ones are which until you've already screwed up your first mockup. Your best bet really is asking the TV creator, she apparently is very responsive when it comes to questions about her patterns.
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Unread 08-01-2016, 05:26 AM   #4
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Unfortunately I've never used their patterns before, but I would assume the measurements are the corseted ones as well.
I also second Penlowe's suggestion of contacting them and if needed, buy the bigger one as it is easier to take a pattern in (especially fitted bodices in my opinion).

I'm by no means an expert in historical dress, but I was under the impression that the Victorians has separates because it was easier to care for them and so they could be swapped out? So the same skirt could be worn with a daytime bodice or an evening bodice. It would reduce the amount of clothes needed for a full wardrobe. It may also have been easier to adjust the separate pieces to fit better?
There is a dress in the Victoria&Albert museum which even has a detachable bustle as well as different bodices, so the outfit could be dressed up or down for different occasions. It would make cleaning clothes also a bit easier as you have lots of smaller pieces instead of one huge heavy one. Again, I'm not a fashion historian, so I could be wrong!

I don't see why you couldn't attach the bodice to the skirt with some tinkering, though some Victorian skirt patterns I've seen have closings on the side, which may make that more difficult. I don't know how common it is.
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Unread 08-01-2016, 07:01 AM   #5
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Quote:
And if they were always designed to be two pieces, here's a legitimate question for those more familiar with Victorian dress- WHYYYYYYYY?!?!?
1. it's easier to get dressed in multiple layers where there are no zippers
2. some of those layers are heavy
3. you can put hooks & eyes on the bodice/ skirt to create a closed/ complete garment look.
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Unread 08-01-2016, 01:46 PM   #6
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The answers to "why always separate" make plenty of sense (never even thought about the mixing and matching pieces to diversify your wardrobe for less money! Very sensible. Especially since I've seen Victorian-era furnishings for keeping clothes in and marvelled at how in the world they could have stored more than one full fancy outfit in those things), but I'd certainly rather have the main dress be one piece if I can. I'll do my pink underskirt as a separate piece (and since it doesn't need to have the same shape in the back as the gold skirt, I'll probably add some ruffling on its backside to help out the petticoat without pulling the underskirt out of shape), but since I planned on modifying the bodice to have a zipper instead of buttons, it'll be no trouble to have the main gold dress as one garment assuming that I can get the pattern to do what I want with it. Also, hooks and eyes just seem to hate me. Doesn't seem to matter where they are, how big or small they are or if they were on storebought or self-made garments, they NEVER stay closed on me. I'll almost certainly be swapping out hooks and eyes for modern fasteners wherever possible.
I did do a bit more research, and apparently the patterns do come with multiple sizes on the paper, which I'll be making traceoffs of for my dress pattern due to the amount of altering I'll need to do with it (so, no ruined investment :P), but I'll probably still send an inquiry on how well the bodice and skirt pattern will combine together into one garment.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moofingham View Post
There's a vibe here that says "We're in this together!Through thick and thin fabric! Through cold water washes and burning hot irons! Though we might super glue ourselves to our projects, cut holes/gashes/oh-god-mom's-gonna-kill-me into the dining room table, we will stand strong together. Unless there is a 75% off sale at the Fabric store. Then you're on your own. And get the hell out of my way."<3

Last edited by ShinobiXikyu : 08-01-2016 at 01:51 PM.
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Unread 08-02-2016, 07:49 AM   #7
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Ah, hooks & eyes on separate garments, the hooks go on the bodice, facing down, the eyes on the waistband of the skirt.
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Unread 08-17-2016, 04:48 PM   #8
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An update, I started mockups, and though I haven't gotten to the much-trickier bodice part yet (boyfriend isn't around to help me take some measurements I need so I can start on it), I mocked up the skirt pieces and it altered and fit with no trouble! It is indeed the perfect shape I needed for the costume. (I just wish it didn't take six whole yards of fabric on just the top skirt alone to get it. X_X)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moofingham View Post
There's a vibe here that says "We're in this together!Through thick and thin fabric! Through cold water washes and burning hot irons! Though we might super glue ourselves to our projects, cut holes/gashes/oh-god-mom's-gonna-kill-me into the dining room table, we will stand strong together. Unless there is a 75% off sale at the Fabric store. Then you're on your own. And get the hell out of my way."<3
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Unread 08-17-2016, 06:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
(I just wish it didn't take six whole yards of fabric on just the top skirt alone to get it. X_X)
welcome to the wonderful and painful world of Historical Garments!
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Unread 12-15-2016, 06:03 PM   #10
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Happy necro time!
Mockup and undergarments are all done at last! It took dozens of fittings and fiddling around (mainly working out the dropped shoulder and my screwy back shape), and I left the bodice piece separate in the end (for the moment my not-so-used-to-this boyfriend pinned it shut for me, but I'll use a separating zipper for the final since I can't get historical fastenings to work out with him also helping me get things on), but I'm ready to make the final at last!
Here's a photo of my "Literally all the scrap satin I owned" mockup. :P
http://www.cosplay.com/photo/3603144/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moofingham View Post
There's a vibe here that says "We're in this together!Through thick and thin fabric! Through cold water washes and burning hot irons! Though we might super glue ourselves to our projects, cut holes/gashes/oh-god-mom's-gonna-kill-me into the dining room table, we will stand strong together. Unless there is a 75% off sale at the Fabric store. Then you're on your own. And get the hell out of my way."<3
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Unread 12-16-2016, 08:17 AM   #11
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it's getting there!
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Unread 12-19-2016, 08:51 AM   #12
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we discussed this a little bit. I stumbled on these examples of separate tops & skirts in historical examples, thought I'd just link for your viewing pleasure.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/153403931036011643/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/153403931035096000/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/153403931034443305/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/153403931033707212/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/153403931033025782/
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/153403931032597202/
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Unread 04-18-2017, 09:27 PM   #13
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A final necro. Voila, I am DONE! And I also threw out the zipper closure because I lost the darn thing. Glad I did, because I had to adjust the back three dang times. Zipper stitching would have basically ruined it. http://whimsicalsquidco.deviantart.c...test-675706236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moofingham View Post
There's a vibe here that says "We're in this together!Through thick and thin fabric! Through cold water washes and burning hot irons! Though we might super glue ourselves to our projects, cut holes/gashes/oh-god-mom's-gonna-kill-me into the dining room table, we will stand strong together. Unless there is a 75% off sale at the Fabric store. Then you're on your own. And get the hell out of my way."<3
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Unread 04-19-2017, 07:30 AM   #14
Penlowe
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Lovely! the detail down the front is intriguing, would love to see a close up of your work on that
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Unread 04-19-2017, 07:35 AM   #15
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Here we go, I snapped a picture of the front beading when it was being worked on. http://whimsicalsquidco.deviantart.c...-WIP-661116408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moofingham View Post
There's a vibe here that says "We're in this together!Through thick and thin fabric! Through cold water washes and burning hot irons! Though we might super glue ourselves to our projects, cut holes/gashes/oh-god-mom's-gonna-kill-me into the dining room table, we will stand strong together. Unless there is a 75% off sale at the Fabric store. Then you're on your own. And get the hell out of my way."<3
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