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Unread 11-23-2010, 04:07 PM   #31
ajisaiareku
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It doesn't seem to me like you are truly listening to what you are being recommended about doing research on coordinates and sub-styles. Every other post you counter with old quotes and remarks about how you want to be creative in your clothes and that everything doesn't have to fall into a certain category. If you have to constantly ask if an item fits into a style, if certain ideas would "technically" be Lolita but not really", or keep going back to the "well it's fashion you can do what you want in a fashion"; then no, you do not know enough to be producing garments for sale
Most Lolitas love the fashion for the elegance, the beauty and the reverance of not having to bare all your skin to be feminine. Coming into the fashion with more of a want to profit first than a respect of the love people have for the fashion will get people to question your motives. To me all it looks like is you want to make a quick buck off the fashion not partake in it or admire it. You don't know much about the styles, basics of coordination, or construction of garments. I'm sorry if I seem harsh but with any fashion I dislike when it looks like money is the only thing important.
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Unread 11-23-2010, 04:39 PM   #32
lolita*neko
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Originally Posted by Ororo Howlett View Post
You see, in order to infuse your style into a fashion that has guidelines such as lolita, you MUST know the basics. The problem we are running into with you is that you are asking some very basic questions that someone who is just getting into lolita would ask, yet you're ready to sell the things you make. It's just as if I watched an episode of Grey's Anatomy and said "Hey I'm ready to practice medicine! Erm... what does MD mean?" You have to walk before you can run.

This is why Meiki (and others) said that you need more research. Not just on the lolita side of things, but go get some books on textiles and other topics that would help a budding designer. Some sewing books have chapters dedicated to fabric types and embellishments.
THIS SO HARD. I always say I would never sell anything I have never made before for myself or at least practiced on so to me (and obviously the majority of us) your going at it backwards. Reading your posts I'm doubting you more and more, which is why I originally said before to lurk and and observe actual lolitas and even well known brands and I still stand by it. Actually, go and see actual lolitas and especially brand clothing in person - it seriously gives you a different view on the clothing and its much better than just looking at pictures on your computer screen.

Try making simple lolita clothes - not to sell, but to get practice. The way I see it your apparently a fellow seamstress/tailor and designer... I shouldn't have to tell you what fabric to use for a simple blouse or a simple JSK. Your apparently into lolita enough to feel confident in making clothes for other people - why are you asking us why quality construction and using the right fabrics/lace is so important [and trying to tell us that there is no such thing as good and bad lace..? WTF. xD)? You should know these things already hence why I wouldn't buy anything from you. Branching off on this, I don't know how your work is. I've never seen you or anyone in clothes - lolita clothes especially - in things you've made for everyday wear. How do you expect me to give you money for it?

I'm all for creativity in lolita, but if you don't know the style well enough in the first place its not going to go well. When it comes to offering your things to sell if you go too out of the box no one is going to buy your things because they won't fit in their wardrobes. It might even go too costume-ish and show that your a novice. Lolita fashion is already a niche style and that makes it that much easier to alienate yourself if your so special-snowflake-ish. It has nothing to do with elitism or trying to keep people out of the market - its just the way it is.
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Unread 11-23-2010, 04:53 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Ororo Howlett View Post
Lawl, old post is old. I tend to cringe when I look at some of the things I posted (so so soooo sorry Meiki!).
Hahaha I completely understand, I just realized it still said that I didn't have any brand clothing. I think the initial post though, which the OP pretty much completely missed whilst mucking through ancient comments, is still pretty good. I've gone in and altered a couple of things just for clarity.

...to me this is just starting to sound like a special snowflake case. Frankly, you can make whatever the hell you'd like and label it lolita, but it does not authentic lolita make.
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Unread 11-23-2010, 04:56 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Sword-Saint View Post
So my question is: Would people be interested in lolita clothes if I made them? Is it something people would buy? I mean, I'm no professional but I can make fairly nice-quality stuff. I've got a ton of designs drawn-up and ideas for things but I'm trying to test the waters first. I don't want to spend a ton on materials and time on making the stuff if no one's going to want it or want to buy it.

So what do you guys think? I need suggestions. Is this something worth pursuing? And by the way, I'd prefer to avoid any messages like "you're a boy and not a pro, so anything you'd make is crap don't even try." I'm looking for either helpful suggestions or market feedback, not discouragement. Got enough of that from my brother, who thinks I'm going gay. :-)
There is no way to answer this question without seeing a sample of your work.
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Unread 11-23-2010, 06:05 PM   #35
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Wow. Ouch.

Alright nevermind. Sick of debating this with you guys. I guess text is hard to get-across motivation and meaning, so I'll take it with a grain of salt. But yikes.

If THIS is the 'welcoming community' my friends told me about, man. Must be looking in the wrong place.

Thanks to those of you that offered info and ideas. I really do appreciate it.

If nothing else, talking with you folks has shown me some places to look for information and such. I've definitely learned about what (apparent) lolitas look for in their fashion.
From now on I guess I'm just going to make what folks I know like and want, and sell to them. And if someone else looks and it and likes it, good for them. And if they get it and hate it... well, tough luck. Guess I'll just be REALLY careful about how I label stuff I make.
And one last thing at Ajisa: You know, I really don't give a crap whether people think I'm mislabeling my clothes as long as there's just one person out there that likes them and wears them. I ALREADY SAID that I do NOT care about the money. If it wasn't for the ridiculously costly fabrics, I wouldn't charge anything. I just want to make cool stuff for people! But apparently that's not good enough for your guys, so... yeah. Nevermind.
lol, I think the one thing I've learned best from this string of criticism is that a good number of you don't seem to be any different then Prada or Gucci fans. Label yourselves whatever you want, trying to uphold the fashion as some sort of deific apogee to reach is what it is. Let's not sugarcoat it.

Thanks for what I'm sure were, at least at first, good intentions. From some of you. Won't be posting here again.
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Unread 11-23-2010, 06:18 PM   #36
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I'm sorry to hear that. From what I can tell, we've been more than helpful in showing you the basics of the style that you clearly did not do a lot of research on. From there, you blatantly ignored any and all advice, claiming that you would make what you wanted to make, and that our opinions didn't matter, which is what you came here asking for in the first place.

And yes, this community is very welcoming and accepting, if you listen to what others have to say when they are more experienced than you are, do your research in easy to access places like the stickies, and learn a little something before assuming that you can go off and do whatever you like to the fashion.
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Unread 11-23-2010, 08:06 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Sword-Saint View Post
Wow. Ouch.

Alright nevermind. Sick of debating this with you guys. I guess text is hard to get-across motivation and meaning, so I'll take it with a grain of salt. But yikes.

If THIS is the 'welcoming community' my friends told me about, man. Must be looking in the wrong place.

Thanks to those of you that offered info and ideas. I really do appreciate it.

If nothing else, talking with you folks has shown me some places to look for information and such. I've definitely learned about what (apparent) lolitas look for in their fashion.
From now on I guess I'm just going to make what folks I know like and want, and sell to them. And if someone else looks and it and likes it, good for them. And if they get it and hate it... well, tough luck. Guess I'll just be REALLY careful about how I label stuff I make.
And one last thing at Ajisa: You know, I really don't give a crap whether people think I'm mislabeling my clothes as long as there's just one person out there that likes them and wears them. I ALREADY SAID that I do NOT care about the money. If it wasn't for the ridiculously costly fabrics, I wouldn't charge anything. I just want to make cool stuff for people! But apparently that's not good enough for your guys, so... yeah. Nevermind.
lol, I think the one thing I've learned best from this string of criticism is that a good number of you don't seem to be any different then Prada or Gucci fans. Label yourselves whatever you want, trying to uphold the fashion as some sort of deific apogee to reach is what it is. Let's not sugarcoat it.

Thanks for what I'm sure were, at least at first, good intentions. From some of you. Won't be posting here again.

*slow clap*
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Unread 11-23-2010, 08:28 PM   #38
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Just wanted to say a few things.

1. Fabric does not have to be expensive. Where did you get that idea?

2. Everyone here has been nothing but helpful. You, sir, are the one being unreasonable. The lolita community is pretty accepting - all we ask is that people do their research and get the style right and if they don't then take whatever criticism with stride and try again. You are not doing that - its seems like your just plugging your ears until you hear something you like. That's not how it works in the real world.

3. I make and sell my own things and its [naturally, since I am one] geared towards lolitas. I like to see people going out there and seeing what they have to offer when it comes to well made and thought-out handmade items. I know the majority of the lolitas feel the same way and despite what you say no one has ever said in this thread that you should give up. All we are saying is before you think of making things to sell, get a grasp of who your trying to attract and what your actually doing. Your going to have a hard time with that, especially considering your starting off offending the people apart of the community you seem to want to please. Good luck with that.
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Unread 11-23-2010, 10:16 PM   #39
Eleksin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lolita*neko View Post
1. Fabric does not have to be expensive. Where did you get that idea?
Coupons yo, coupons.


We said that we don't sugar coat, it's your fault for taking it so hard. L*N and Meiki are right.

Oh and thanks for being absolutely rude ad callings us "apparent lolitas". Lolita is one of the most important things to us, part of our lives as they are today. We know what we are talking about and having you doubt that is just telling us more that you still have much to learn. Lolita is not simple, and it can take a very long time to get the in's and out's of it. For myself, I have been a lolita for over a year and I am still learning news things.
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Unread 11-23-2010, 10:27 PM   #40
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Okay, first and foremost: I am not a lolita, and I know very little about the style. I'm not really posting to deal with any of the specifics people seem to be having issues with, but, having been raised by a Libra, I'm seeing two very valid sides of this and I feel a need to try to put out there what I'm seeing so people don't get any more angry.

Sword-Saint: first of all, I know you said you wouldn't post again in this thread. But I hope that if you read this, maybe you won't be as angry as you seemed. I understand where you're coming from. (If in reading this, if you do read it, you find that I have no clue where you're coming from, perhaps this is an issue in online communication... which I doubt it is, since you seemed pretty clear.) From what I'm seeing, you want to make things that people like, and you want to make it lolita since you enjoy the style. It also seems that because you perhaps didn't make it clear enough what you were saying at first, people were perhaps a bit more harsh than they could have been, and right off the bat people were offended on both sides.

It does also, however, seem clear that while you're trying to get your point across, you seem to be ignoring some points that some people are making because it seems like you thought they were just trying to be offensive or rude or discouraging. I don't think they were: I think, for the most part (and from what I've read there are some exceptions) they were just being... blatantly and perhaps slightly harshly helpful? Honest. Maybe honest is a good word.

It seems like the consensus is that, yeah, if you want to make your own stuff that's awesome, but you started off saying "lolita" and then "I want to be original," both of which are fine. But what some people may have read was "why should I follow lolita rules?" It seems like everyone kind of took things to an extreme in both directions, and so people got offended.

It does seem like you could use some, like someone said, brushing up on basics. Trust me when I say I'm ten times as confused as you are when people say" this fabric and not that" for lolita, and I don't know much about fabrics, so I couldn't tell you what's good quality or not good quality. And I think the fact that you're not a pro shouldn't mean you automatically are going to make low-quality lolita things. I don't think that's necessarily what people were getting at, but it was starting to sound like it. What could, however, help, is a wider range of knowledge about fabrics. At least types of fabrics, and then the quality of fabrics can come next. I don't mean to sound patronizing, but there were a few times I saw that you weren't sure what a fabric was that someone mentioned, and since they seemed to be fabrics that lolitas used fairly often, perhaps it's a good thing to look into.

One other thing that came to mind as I was reading this: there was a common theme that lolitas won't buy something that isn't sufficiently lolita. I think the original point was more of a... warning? That if you're going to try to sell lolita things, if they're not precisely lolita, many lolitas are very strict about what they buy and they simply won't be interested. This coming from lolitas, of course, they were very strict and precise about the way they said this, which perhaps came across as harsh.

If you want to sell lolita-type things, maybe do start off selling things that aren't quite lolita, and while you're at it you can learn more things about the entire community, and fabrics, and whatnot, through experience. At the same time, you can, potentially, make things that people will enjoy wearing. I think that would be really cool. And as long as you don't lablel things as lolita that aren't EXACTLY lolita, I don't think you'll offend anyone (and I'm pretty certain, after reading this thread, that people would get offended.)

I hope I didn't come across as harsh: this was exactly the opposite of my intentions.

As for other people, yes, he did ignore some points that people made... but if it had been me, I would have felt pretty bombarded by harsh criticism, even if that's not what was intended. This thread read more like an argument than something really helpful, although there were helpful points throughout. I think most of the issues that popped up were mostly due to things Sword-Saint said that either weren't 100% correct or weren't said exactly the way he intended. Those became issues because people saw those, read them as Sword-Saint being uneducated or even downright clueless, and responded in an honest way that then seemed harsh, as often the original poster wasn't aware he'd said anything "wrong."

I'm sorry if this is turning out to be a huge rant of something everyone's already figured out, but... I don't know. Maybe this was a pointless post. But I thought it worth my while to try to dissolve some of what turned into an argument, and I hope maybe I cleared something up for people. If not, sorry to waste your time, and I hope everything clears up on its own.
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Unread 11-23-2010, 11:04 PM   #41
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Sometimes it is really good for a 3rd party person to come in. I think it is safe to say both parties are at fault here at varying degrees.
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Unread 11-24-2010, 06:13 AM   #42
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Lawl at this entire thread.
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Unread 11-24-2010, 07:28 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by celticfreefall View Post
Lawl at this entire thread.
I agree XD I'm sorry, but people need to research a style before they can sew piece intended to be sold and worn.

*start rant*

Even after looking at Lolita magazines for years and attending many meetups, I still have what I consider a mediocre grasp of the style. Loltia is a very hard style to grasp and the outsiders it seems to be a very rule oriented uncreative style. In fact it can get very creative and DOES have room for creativity. But many past experiences have shown newer clothing creators aren't up to par to be selling.

*end of rant*
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Unread 11-24-2010, 08:07 PM   #44
SecretSoliloquy
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Originally Posted by Migumi View Post
I agree XD I'm sorry, but people need to research a style before they can sew piece intended to be sold and worn.

*start rant*

Even after looking at Lolita magazines for years and attending many meetups, I still have what I consider a mediocre grasp of the style. Loltia is a very hard style to grasp and the outsiders it seems to be a very rule oriented uncreative style. In fact it can get very creative and DOES have room for creativity. But many past experiences have shown newer clothing creators aren't up to par to be selling.

*end of rant*
Um, it is a style of clothing, not molecular physics.
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Unread 11-24-2010, 08:15 PM   #45
Aleiki
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Sometimes it is really good for a 3rd party person to come in. I think it is safe to say both parties are at fault here at varying degrees.
That's what I was hoping... and yeah, I would have said so as well. It seems like for the most part it started out as a misunderstanding... but... who knows.
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