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[lolita*neko]

Originally Posted by Axelai

I didn't mean to say i expect people to give me tips.

You did say in your last post your outfit was off "But no one had told me at that time" which gave out that impression.

Its just a HUGE turn off to people trying to start in the fashion if everyone acts like they suck because they're new. A lot of lolitas i meet irl act like that, as well as people posting in here. If everyone were nicer and more friendly with the help, i'm sure we'd have less stories about rude lolitas.

To be completely honest, I feel like this is becoming a case of the idea that 'lolis r suppose to be nice'. No one on here is flat out rude but I feel like some think that we have to overly hospitable and baby newbies which I'm not about to do. I didn't expect that getting into the style and quite frankly I'm not doing it for anyone else. But I feel like if we aren't anything but that, people are still going to believe we're all bitches because we aren't catering to their every need the way they want us to. So its either act fake and overly nice to others just because your in frills or be called a bitch. Either way its a lose-lose situation for us lolitas.

Originally Posted by SecretSoliloquy

Yes, that's obviously exactly what I said. Good to know lolitas are not only helpful, but insightful.

I try.

Originally Posted by noctiluca

Wow, way to make some very broad generalizations about a fashion that thousands of people wear.

What I don't get is the notoriety lolitas receive even though they act just like everyone else, where most people are really nice or average and there are a few bad apples. But of course, negative people get all the attention, build a stereotype, and then even moderate bluntness coming from a perfectly nice person with a bow on their head forever associates them being rude or elitist. So everyone who says there are lots of rude lolitas have no right to complain about people who hate Hetalia/yaoi/Naruto/KH/etc fans because it's doing the exact same thing o_O

And come on, cosplayers can be nasty to each other too, and judge people based on their costume construction or how they acquired it.

This is really silly :P

I agree with every bit of this... especially the last bit. xDD
I feel like us 'good' girls are expected to compensate for the 1 out of 5 douchebags that pop up. People assume frills and girlishness equal to sweet and caring personalities and are disappointed to see it doesn't. Its annoying.

[sylf]

I don't think Axelai means all LOLITAs should be sweet and nice. Rather, I would say PEOPLE should be nice and genuine when trying to help, instead of talking with an exasperated and condescending tone. If that's the kind of help you give, you might as well not be helping - just don't post, if it's that annoying. Someone else can help them for a change. I, for one, don't want to have a reputation as a nasty person just because I'm in lolita, so wouldn't it be best not to further propagate that image? What, exactly, is wrong with trying to be nicer?

Yes, I do wonder about that too sometimes... I know there are elitists and the like in cosplay and anime lovers where you're not a "REAL cosplayer or fan if XYZ" .. but for some reason it doesn't seem to be as huge a problem as in lolita... or so it seems to me, though maybe I'm wrong. =/

[Eleksin]

Kinda sad that this one time this forums gets a lot of responses is because of something like this.

We are tough here because, let's face it, lolita is also tough. It is definitely not easy in the slightest because there can be very fine lines between good and bad. We try to set these thin lines in stone so people can know their boundaries, because when boundaries are overstepped because someone wants to be unique, they usually over step it by a lot. And you know, even brands mess up sometimes because the line is so thin.

[Tonksie]

Originally Posted by SecretSoliloquy

I actually have only cosplayed a handful of times (3 or 4 tops), and I've spent very little time and money on all of the costumes.

And, in answer to your last sentence, that's really quite relative.

For someone who doesn't cosplay much, you sure post a lot on cosplay forums (261 posts at the time of this post)

[Ororo Howlett]

Originally Posted by Axelai

It seems a lot of the things posted when people ask for help, isn't helpful, but more of "ugh, you should know this already" mindset.

If you are referring to this thread, then yes, people that post questions about lolita items (which they plan on making and selling) would get that kind of response.

Sword-Saint claims that he loves the fashion and would like to make some pieces to sell. The problem is that he is asking some basic questions that anyone who is experienced enough to make and sell lolita stuff should already know! It's one thing to say "hey, I'm new to the fashion as a whole. Can I get some advice?" but asking if people would buy the things he makes and giving all of us the feeling that he really doesn't have a clue about the fashion (and giving us attitude when we try to help)... that is irritating.

I try my best to correct people when they get something wrong. I am honest and sometimes blunt when it comes to critique. I do not sugarcoat advice though I always try to be polite. I do these things so that our fashion doesn't give off the wrong impression and I know I am not the only lolita that does this. When someone wants to market their line of lolita products and they ask any of us for advice, we should want to make sure that they know what they're doing.

[lolita*neko]

Originally Posted by sylf

I don't think Axelai means all LOLITAs should be sweet and nice. Rather, I would say PEOPLE should be nice and genuine when trying to help, instead of talking with an exasperated and condescending tone. If that's the kind of help you give, you might as well not be helping - just don't post, if it's that annoying. Someone else can help them for a change. I, for one, don't want to have a reputation as a nasty person just because I'm in lolita, so wouldn't it be best not to further propagate that image? What, exactly, is wrong with trying to be nicer?

She did say 'If everyone were nicer and more friendly with the help, I'm sure we'd have less stories about rude lolitas' plus we are talking about lolitas here so I figured it was safe to conclude that she feels more or less all of us should ham it up a bit more [for lack of a better term].

When I post here and in every community I'm a part of online I am being genuine and nice. I don't really act any different online than I do in person. So what your telling me is that I'm not suited to help others because I'm a bit blunt and tell it like it is? I see it like this: Would you rather someone be honest about your outfit and give you straight to the point constructive crit in a respectful matter, or would you rather have someone so concerned with having a great reputation and being ultra sweet that when you ask a serious question they sugarcoat it so much you didn't actually learn anything? With the first choice it might sting a bit, but at least your walking away with better knowledge of the style. That's the way I learn things of this matter so that's the way I teach it.

If I felt it was annoying and beneath me to give advice, believe me I wouldn't. I wouldn't be spending time I could be sewing to built my own wardrobe and prepping for my artist alley tables to plan lolita panels or regularly check up on this forum. I'm sorry you may think that I'm condescending and being impatient or whatever because that's not what I'm trying to do.

[SecretSoliloquy]

Originally Posted by Tonksie

For someone who doesn't cosplay much, you sure post a lot on cosplay forums (261 posts at the time of this post)

261 posts compared to the over one thousand posts of the majority of members I see here disproves your point. Come to think of it, what was your point?

I think you lolis should just make a macro of a lolcat with a pink bow on that declares in large letters, 'loli iz srz bznz', paste that whenever you are irked by the genuine questions of new people getting into the fashion asking for help, and move on with your lives.

[Eleksin]

Originally Posted by SecretSoliloquy

261 posts compared to the over one thousand posts of the majority of members I see here disproves your point. Come to think of it, what was your point?

I think you lolis should just make a macro of a lolcat with a pink bow on that declares in large letters, 'loli iz srz bznz', paste that whenever you are irked by the genuine questions of new people getting into the fashion asking for help, and move on with your lives.

Why don't you move on from this thread instead of not contributing anything anymore. I don't think we need anymore of your "Lolis are mean" posts so it would be greatly appreciated if you stopped.

In case you couldn't tell, I was politely saying something. I can be polite and blunt at the same time but that does not make me a rude bitch thank you very much.

[SecretSoliloquy]

Originally Posted by Eleksin

Why don't you move on from this thread instead of not contributing anything anymore. I don't think we need anymore of your "Lolis are mean" posts so it would be greatly appreciated if you stopped.

In case you couldn't tell, I was politely saying something. I can be polite and blunt at the same time but that does not make me a rude bitch thank you very much.

Are any of us really contributing to ANYTHING in this thread? The guy who started it left long ago. I find it interesting that you thought my last comment was solely directed at you.

[Eleksin]

Originally Posted by SecretSoliloquy

Are any of us really contributing to ANYTHING in this thread? The guy who started it left long ago. I find it interesting that you thought my last comment was solely directed at you.

The topic had changed when the OP left his thread, and we were talking about the new topic. You don't seem to want to take part in it and just point fingers.

I know it was directed at everyone. I was just showing by example.

[celticfreefall]

Actually... I already have one from like four years ago. You should check out Macrolita. We do have senses of humor, shocking, I know. It's not like that's some kind of new "GEEZ YOU GUYS" lolcatworthy statement. And if we did do that, you'd quite rightfully be upset about it, I'm guessing? Why is the fact that people find that something is annoying so offensive to you?

Just because something is annoying doesn't mean that we don't care enough to go out of our way to help people, which is the point. We don't have to put up with people being condescending and calling us catty bitches because we continue to frequent the forums to help out newbies. We don't have to give concise, polite answers over and over again. But we do anyway. All of us were newbies at some point in time and know what people go through. We want to provide them with the necessary information that we have, and I know didn't exist in a digestible format when I started wearing lolita. This IS a luxury. And we have the ability to admit that it's still annoying, which really has nothing to do with anything in the long run as long as you're polite.

But being that you continue to post just like us that comment kind of makes you a hypocrite, so, I'd suggest the same to you. The insinuation about your cosplay and commenting was out of line, but so are your statements that equally have nothing to do with that comment.

[SecretSoliloquy]

Originally Posted by Eleksin

The topic had changed when the OP left his thread, and we were talking about the new topic. You don't seem to want to take part in it and just point fingers.

I know it was directed at everyone. I was just showing by example.

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, just pointing out the 'I'm right, you're wrong' mentality that hard-core lolis tend to indulge in. That was originally a general statement, but a couple of you responded to it as though it were directed solely at yourselves.
And I never called anyone a 'rude bitch'.

[SecretSoliloquy]

Originally Posted by celticfreefall

Actually... I already have one from like four years ago. You should check out Macrolita. We do have senses of humor, shocking, I know. It's not like that's some kind of new "GEEZ YOU GUYS" lolcatworthy statement. And if we did do that, you'd quite rightfully be upset about it, I'm guessing? Why is the fact that people find that something is annoying so offensive to you?

Just because something is annoying doesn't mean that we don't care enough to go out of our way to help people, which is the point. We don't have to put up with people being condescending and calling us catty bitches because we continue to frequent the forums to help out newbies. We don't have to give concise, polite answers over and over again. But we do anyway. All of us were newbies at some point in time and know what people go through. We want to provide them with the necessary information that we have, and I know didn't exist in a digestible format when I started wearing lolita. This IS a luxury. And we have the ability to admit that it's still annoying, which really has nothing to do with anything in the long run as long as you're polite.

But being that you continue to post just like us that comment kind of makes you a hypocrite, so, I'd suggest the same to you. The insinuation about your cosplay and commenting was out of line, but so are your statements that equally have nothing to do with that comment.

Are you talking to me? Who are you?

[celticfreefall]

I'm not even going to respond to the "Who are you?!" bs. Who are you? And yes, I'm responding to you. There just happened to be posts that occurred while I was typing out that comment.

Lolitas tend to have a right or wrong point of view because within the fashion there are general right or wrongs. Because it's fashion, it's flexible, and we all know that there aren't rules but guidelines and we're aware that pushing the envelope is a good things. But this is a beginners forum. We're dealing with people who, for the most part, don't usually know off the bat that wearing sateen party dress isn't lolita. We lay out hardfast rules for them so that it's easier for them to make more eye pleasing beginner choices. I realize that on here it seems like people are being rule nazis, but since you aren't a lolita as stated I'm guessing that you aren't aware of the larger fashion community because "hardcore lolitas" are the people who are usually pushing the limit on blending the fashion in new and interesting ways.

[SecretSoliloquy]

Originally Posted by celticfreefall

I'm not even going to respond to the "Who are you?!" bs.

...You just did.

Originally Posted by celticfreefall

Because it's fashion.

Yes, just fashion. Nothing more, nothing less. Which is/was my only point this entire time.
In my experience, people only get this irate and defensive if they feel they have done something that warrants defending.