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Unread 02-12-2011, 06:45 PM   #31
Jia Jem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetOcarina View Post
I figure that by the time it gets to cosplay photography, you are creating art. If you cannot match your interpretation of the character naturally, why not enhance yourself with photoshop? ...You are taking a photo to look like the character afterall, not show off particularly who you are yourself.
THIS is how I feel, too.

You are creating a fantasy. Some people view the *making* and/or the *wearing* of the cosplay as The End of the hobby for them. Some people choose to photograph it, and that is The End. Then some people like to take it further, manipulate it, and that is The End. There are many means to express your hobby, and I think it's a matter of personal preference how far you are willing to go as a participant or accept as a viewer. It's subjective.

I can appreciate cosplay in person. I can appreciate an untouched photo. I can appreciate a totally photoshopped to hell and back "artwork". They each have their own technical merit, just as manga or anime or digital artwork or hand-drawn picture etc. do. But one isn't superior or more correct than the other.
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Unread 02-12-2011, 08:06 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kildread View Post
Out of curiosity (And not for the sake of arguementing) --- is it the event or the after-the-fact photos that are important?

I mean, the aforementionned pimple is going to stand out on your forehead the entire event, staring down anyone who takes your picture or sees you there. Editing it out after the fact can make for better photos (And better nostalgy pictures), but the glaring pimple was only erased in the image.
When you meet in person, you are a living, breathing package. People can speak to you, enjoy your company and have fun with some context of who you are and who everyone else around you is. EVERYONE has flaws in person that they can't wish away. There are a lot of pores, flyaways and pimples at every cosplay event. No one cares. Why? Because it's an event and we all know what it's like. We're there to enjoy ourselves, not judge folks.

When your photo goes up online, the whole world is suddenly able to look at it and criticize. Suddenly people who have never met you are looking at you. And they aren't looking at you moving, enjoying yourself or in the context of a busy event. People pay closer attention to flaws in still images than they do in person. It's part of why a lot of us don't consider ourselves photogenic.

Flaws don't bother me in the least in person.
But I really dread seeing photos of events after the fact.
As a pale-skinned person on the cusp of 30 -- I don't necesarily photograph well.

For a good example of the what cameras can do to perception: take a heat resistant wig... ANY heat resistant wig and take some photos of it in natural light, flash, half-light, side-light.

Does it look the same on the camera as it does in person? Looking at the wig, you might not see any flyaways or tangles... can you see them in the photos?
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Unread 02-12-2011, 08:26 PM   #33
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As much as I like photoshopping away scars/zits/changing the color, it does seem silly to do it to a cosplay picture AFTER the fact. People saw all that on your face and such during con, so..why change it after? Iono, maybe just for fun. Then again, it could just be a really bad picture, bad lighting, etc. I still do it anyway cuz the picture is what I'll be looking at in the future, not the memory.
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Unread 02-12-2011, 08:40 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiratsukai View Post
When you meet in person, you are a living, breathing package. People can speak to you, enjoy your company and have fun with some context of who you are and who everyone else around you is. EVERYONE has flaws in person that they can't wish away. There are a lot of pores, flyaways and pimples at every cosplay event. No one cares. Why? Because it's an event and we all know what it's like. We're there to enjoy ourselves, not judge folks.

When your photo goes up online, the whole world is suddenly able to look at it and criticize. Suddenly people who have never met you are looking at you. And they aren't looking at you moving, enjoying yourself or in the context of a busy event. People pay closer attention to flaws in still images than they do in person. It's part of why a lot of us don't consider ourselves photogenic.

Flaws don't bother me in the least in person.
But I really dread seeing photos of events after the fact.
As a pale-skinned person on the cusp of 30 -- I don't necesarily photograph well.

For a good example of the what cameras can do to perception: take a heat resistant wig... ANY heat resistant wig and take some photos of it in natural light, flash, half-light, side-light.

Does it look the same on the camera as it does in person? Looking at the wig, you might not see any flyaways or tangles... can you see them in the photos?
I didn't think about it this way --- but it's totally true. The pictures online are rarely viewed in their actual context and more on how dashingly amazing they are... so you're right, the flaws really show up more on those than at the event.

Funny --- it's kind of the same with pictures of me.

when I get my picture taken at events.
D: when I see how some of the shots turned out in the end.
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Unread 02-12-2011, 09:13 PM   #35
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I would also like to historically add that bigger women (Or to be more specific, a thin waist with fuller thighs/rump) were seen as a symbol of wealth and prosperity - if you were on the rounder side, it indicated that you had the financial ability to purchase more food, and better quality food at that. It was more than just looking like the ideal babymaker, it was also a representation of your high status in society.

(Small boobs were also seen as more beautiful for a couple hundred years)

An no, it is not a scientific fact that elegantly figured women are better at bearing children than slender women lol nor were they considered more valuable at the time. Valuable women were dubbed as pious, pure, obedient, graceful, good mothers and good wives. But that is a completely different topic altogether so I'll move on:

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I actually find "perfection" fairly creepy. I look at pictures that were obviously airbushed, and you see the subject with porcelain doll-like skin and everything. I really don't like it x_X it looks very unnatural.


Like others mentioned, little bits of tweaking here and there is fine and normal. Stuff like lighting, improving your skin tone a tad and so forth. But if it comes to the point where you look like some sort of mannequin.....then no. It is true, if you have to alter so much to the point where you aren't even the same person anymore, how can it be cosplay? If people are complimenting your fake self, what is the point? They are not complimenting the real you.


"Perfection" is boring and overated anyhow. And as mentioned, can be creepy. Natural and human is the most beautiful, regardless of what you look like.
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Unread 02-13-2011, 01:20 AM   #36
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I am somewhat guilty for photoshopping my pics a bit (removing blemishes and some weight), but I've yet to have anyone tell me that I look much different in real life XD

I personally think it's alright to photoshop your photos as long as it does not change it beyond recognition, so that the photo and the original at least still look like the same person~ ^^

And I agree, those doll-like super photoshopped pictures just look creepy to me ^^;
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Unread 02-13-2011, 01:47 AM   #37
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If I ever get the photo shop program I wouldnt use it to make myself look more "beautifull" I'd prefer to use it to like give myself gills mess around with the colors and just make myself like an alien or something you know just have fun not be looking to be something that people will be expecting in real life and they wont be able to see
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Unread 02-13-2011, 04:16 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jia Jem View Post
THIS is how I feel, too.

You are creating a fantasy. Some people view the *making* and/or the *wearing* of the cosplay as The End of the hobby for them. Some people choose to photograph it, and that is The End. Then some people like to take it further, manipulate it, and that is The End. There are many means to express your hobby, and I think it's a matter of personal preference how far you are willing to go as a participant or accept as a viewer. It's subjective.

I can appreciate cosplay in person. I can appreciate an untouched photo. I can appreciate a totally photoshopped to hell and back "artwork". They each have their own technical merit, just as manga or anime or digital artwork or hand-drawn picture etc. do. But one isn't superior or more correct than the other.
^This-I agree

From a graphic artists stand point:
Photoshop is a tool, and advertisements, videos, everything is altered, manipulated, and edited to make look thinner, slimmer, less unseemly and smoother. Skin is one of the hardest things to make look natural while altering it to be smaller/thinner. It can also make a woman (or man) feel better about themselves and who is some stranger to judge what THEY decide to do themselves.
To consider it "deceitful" is ridiculous. Who cares?!

Yes, we should "embrace" our bodies, and all that jargon, but the world is slow moving and changes at an even slower pace. Sex sells, so why not try to achieve your ultimate form of what you consider sexy. If that means photoshopping yourself thin, so be it, but realize that what you see in the mirror is not what's on the computer screen. (Until you make it happen) Maybe those images are aspirations to the people, a reason to loose weight or pose better or just look like how they truly want to.

And honestly,
what is so wrong with that?

I've photoshopped people to look moderately less "bulky" and slimmed down. Nothing outrageous (that would take hours upon hours) but to make the other person feel better and go "I don't look so fat now!". To me, that's an accomplishment, and a compliment, that they feel good about their photos.

Also whoever took the image OWNS copyright to the image. You have no say what the owner does with them or what they use them for. Just saying.
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Unread 02-13-2011, 05:49 AM   #39
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Photoshop is no substitute for hard hours at the gym and a proper diet, though - regarding people who shop themselves thin, that is. I think that's wrong as it's giving a false impression of who you really are. If you're that insecure about your body, get thyself to the gym, invest in some magic underwear or stay away from cameras, don't lie to make people think you're skinny when you aren't.

Mind you, as someone who doesn't consider themselves terribly photogenic, I'm all for photoshop when it comes to editing other flaws. Although I tend to try to avoid cameras anyway. I believe that good editing is the key to a good photo, and if someone's got a pimple or a bra strap is showing, why not shop it out? Natural isn't always best, especially when it comes to cosplay. You're in a costume, pretending to be someone else. Why not go the whole hog and shop the hell out of it to make the photo look the best it can.
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Unread 02-13-2011, 09:02 AM   #40
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It seems the big difference of opinion about photoshopping relates more to what someone plans to do with the photo.

If you are looking at the picture as art, with the look of the final product to be the best artistic thing that you can create- then there should be no limits on photoshopping.

However, if you are looking at the picture as a representation of yourself, then too much photo shopping makes it no longer representative and therefore "deceitful."

Obviously, neither of these things are inherently better or worse... it's kind of like asking, "Should I use a hammer or a screwdriver?" If it's to open my computer case, I may feel like using the hammer but the screwdriver is a better bet. If it's to drive a nail, I'm going for the hammer. And I appreciate them both in my toolkit.
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Unread 02-13-2011, 11:00 AM   #41
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If I have to photoshop the begeezus out of a photo (unless it's an effect I couldn't do IRL) then I didn't do my job as a photographer. I will use it for color correction and sometimes imperfections.
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Unread 02-13-2011, 01:11 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarinalove View Post
To consider it "deceitful" is ridiculous. Who cares?!
I agree with pretty much all of your post and what you're saying makes a lot of sense... however, I think when people brought up the "lying" thing, it was more specifically in terms of, say, dating sites or things like that. At least, that's how I read it. Like if you take a picture of yourself and photoshop it so much you don't look like you anymore, only to put it in a place like a dating site, where people expect that you look like the picture you posted... then it's not cool to me. At that point, why are you even posting a picture of yourself? Just put a picture of someone else if it's that important.

But if you're putting that picture somewhere and you make it clear it's been manipulated, that's not an issue to me.

Maybe I was misreading other peoples' posts, but that's what I was thinking of when I said that. *shrug*
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Unread 02-13-2011, 01:38 PM   #43
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Photoshop is okay, to a certain degree.

For example, I don't usually have any acne on my face but I got 3 or 4 pimples on my face one morning and I ps'd them out of the shot. I wasn't edited beyond recognition, but I think anyone would agree that 4 huge red pimples are quite distracting from the main focus of the picture.

Or I will occasionally edit my freckles out of a picture if the character I'm cosplaying doesn't have freckles.
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Unread 02-13-2011, 01:58 PM   #44
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I think its okay to use photoshop i mean I do it but just to like make the picture glow and look professional i dont do it to make myself look skinny or make my Boobs bigger or make my face diffrent... Thats going WAY too far in my opinon
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Unread 02-13-2011, 02:11 PM   #45
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When people photoshop images so much that it's drastically altered the model and photo, I wonder why not just be drawing fanart instead? I am a graphic designer, too, and I work in photoshop pretty much every day, even on my days off, so I know what its capabilities are.

However, the only thing I've ever altered of myself in photos is doing stupid crap like giving myself Hulk Hogan tattoos in silly pictures or photoshopping in speech bubbles that say stupid things, or making animated gifs of myself making crazy eyes. In most of that website's examples, the photo that was taken wasn't exactly a great photo, so the shopping is basically just oriented toward making the person look like what he or she (or someone else) wish they looked like. If a picture is otherwise awesome but somebody has a zit or something in the middle of her forehead or a huge piece of broccoli in his teeth, by all means, photoshop that out. For just hallway snapshots that are somebody standing there, I don't see the point. I also go to the gym at least five times a week, however.

If somebody is making a weird face or their neck's positioned in such a way as to be unflattering or something, the photographer should have a good enough eye to see that going on in the shot and direct the model. If the picture sucks or is unflattering, the photographer should also have the decency not to post it online. If you didn't take any photos that were flattering to the model to the point where you have to photoshop one into acceptability, you need to reassess your skills and cut losses.

The responsibility is on everybody involved, IMO. Perhaps that is not a popular opinion.
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