Go Back   Cosplay.com > Cosplay Chat > General Cosplay Chat

Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 5.00 average.
Unread 02-14-2011, 04:40 PM   #61
Kawaii Pocky
I a shower, not a grower!
 
Kawaii Pocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,130
Actually, as I read people's posts it made me think. Why do a lot of us consider it wrong to shop your face "attractive" and shop your body "skinny". But it's okay irl to wear spanx and shape wear and stuff to make people look skinny that may be chubby or fat or whatever. I never really thought about that.

The photos just kinda bothered me because if the actual person in the photo shopped themselves super skinny from being obese think that little of themselves that they have to drastically shop their body and face that much? Or even some one that's skinny and maybe doesn't like their face.

I guess it just kind of makes me think of my self confidence issues growing up, even though I've always been super skinny growing up and now I'm a bit over weight and I hate my body. Even though for about 3 months I've been working out and eating better and I've lost weight.

I suppose in the end what ever any one does to their pics cosplay or not in shop is their business and what not. But still, I guess it just bugs me when some one hates their body or their own face that much to alter themselves ungodly, especially when the face looks like a creepy ass porceline doll. Too perfect.

I'm fortunate that I'm photogenic and I don't have to wear any make up and my face looks great in photos. I think my cosplay photos I didn't actually wear any foundation or conceiler though I did wear make up on my eyes to make them look "bigger and more anime" like. I rarily use ps other then to maybe brighten the photo if it's dark or change my eye color to match the characters. I think the most I ever shopped out was stretch marks, they normally don't show up in photos, but some times they do and they bug me.

And as for 4Chan...I'm not allowed to go there on my bf's pc. So I wouldn't know. lol
__________________
2013 Planned Anime Cons:
Shutocon
Youmacon
Planned Cosplays 2013:
C.C. - Code Geass (100%)
Akihiko Sanada - Persona 3 (100%)
Lolita - (100%)
Yukiko Alt Color - Persona 3/Persona 4 Arena (planned)
Catherine - Catherine (planned)
Sebastian - Black Butler (planned)
Shiro Lolita - (planned)
Kawaii Pocky is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Unread 02-14-2011, 05:02 PM   #62
Wolverine
Registered User
 
Wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 468
What amazes me is that there are a few people out there that are so against any type of photo-editing that they are even against one of the most simplest forms of photo-editing or photo-manipulation (that can be done by almost anyone) -- photo head-swapping. An example of a situation where you might use such a technique …

You have taken multiple shots of a group cosplay. You have picked out three of the best photographs from that shoot. But …
photo 1 has one person on the far left yawning or opening their mouth
photo 2 has someone in the front row w/ their eyes closed
photo 3 has a cosplayer in the back row and far right that has his/her head turned to the side
You do some head-swapping to get the "perfect shot" & voilà! You have the one shot that you really wanted!

But some say that that picture is deceiving cuz it is not of a shot taken "as is" due to the fact that you did the head-swapping alteration -- even if that is the only photo-editing thing that you actually did! (So, basically, no “facial reconstruction” or “body resculpting” done to any of the cosplayers in the pic through Paint Shop Pro, Photoshop, etc.)

For that specific situation, IMO, the cosplay photographer is acting more like an artist and not like a news reporter … in order to fully achieve a perfect vision of something through whatever means necessary, and not simply recording something for "re-broadcasting" to the general public. <-- Note: I am only referring to the "head-swap" effect only, not any other type of photo manipulation that alters the face and/or body.
Wolverine is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2011, 05:10 PM   #63
Yukikittie
 
Posts: n/a
I am okay with someone photoshopping themselves as much as they want to. If it makes them feel better about themselves, then good for them.
  Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2011, 05:11 PM   #64
x-Steffi-x
UK Cosplayer...x
 
x-Steffi-x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii Pocky View Post
Actually, as I read people's posts it made me think. Why do a lot of us consider it wrong to shop your face "attractive" and shop your body "skinny". But it's okay irl to wear spanx and shape wear and stuff to make people look skinny that may be chubby or fat or whatever. I never really thought about that.
Hm, I think of it as like, using corsets, body shapers etc for a cosplay is only temporary but photoshopping an image will always be there unless the poster takes it off. I've never thought that either. But either way I just think, why can't everyone be happy? Sure we've got our flaws, but as long as the costume looks great and fits nicely on your body then it doesn't matter. I notice that a lot of people are trying to do things to their body by not doing either. Like losing weight or buffing up for example. It would be more beneficial in the long run. There's only so much photoshopping you can do until it kind of gets ridiculous really. Like many people have said, you can't lie about your image forever.
Photoshop can do amazing things and produce amazing results, photoshopping to the extreme shows your artistic side, but it doesn't make you any better of a cosplayer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii Pocky View Post
The photos just kinda bothered me because if the actual person in the photo shopped themselves super skinny from being obese think that little of themselves that they have to drastically shop their body and face that much? Or even some one that's skinny and maybe doesn't like their face.
That's what I don't get, photoshopping your body size. I mean, if one doesn't like their size, surely they would do something about it? Photoshop won't solve that kind of answer. Cosplaying takes guts and courage and self confidence. I even have areas in which I'm self conscious but to me, cosplay disguises that. If we all used photoshop to get rid of every single thing we hated, then where's the fun in expressing our true selves through cosplaying? Isn't that why we do this hobby, mostly for fun?
We're not all super models, and besides, what one may hate about their body, another person may like or fail to see the problem unless mentioned.
If someone thought I was ugly? Fuck 'em, I'm not photoshopping my face to satisfy their taste, nor would it be proving anything to myself.
There's being creative with photoshop, and then there's being distasteful - that's all I'm trying to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii Pocky View Post
I guess it just kind of makes me think of my self confidence issues growing up, even though I've always been super skinny growing up and now I'm a bit over weight and I hate my body. Even though for about 3 months I've been working out and eating better and I've lost weight.
Bodies change all the time, and you're either happy with it or your not, but I'm amazed at how many people on this site have passion and self confidence and motivation for the sake of cosplaying, but also to themselves!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii Pocky View Post
I suppose in the end what ever any one does to their pics cosplay or not in shop is their business and what not. But still, I guess it just bugs me when some one hates their body or their own face that much to alter themselves ungodly, especially when the face looks like a creepy ass porceline doll. Too perfect.
Ikr? I mean, people worship these porcelain cosplayers, but they're not exactly perfect themselves if they've overly-photoshopped their face. Overdoing it. But yes, it is their business and no one can tell them what to do, but there is a point where you have to stop and think "Hey, I can look just as beautiful without photoshop", with the right lighting, angles, and an awesome photographer, you would need minimal/or no photoshop at all.
I just see it as a fake and kinda boring when people try too hard to look like a character to the point they actually look like a 2D character - and that gets to a beyond creepy stage of becoming inhuman. Great if you want to look as close as the character as possible, but you do that by creating a great costume, a great wig and prop, amazing poses, etc, etc. But your face will never be exactly like the character as well as other parts of your body, but that's what makes us individual as cosplayers. Such things are great for artistic, creative shots, but not great for portraying yourself as a cosplayer as it isn't you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii Pocky View Post
I'm fortunate that I'm photogenic and I don't have to wear any make up and my face looks great in photos. I think my cosplay photos I didn't actually wear any foundation or conceiler though I did wear make up on my eyes to make them look "bigger and more anime" like. I rarily use ps other then to maybe brighten the photo if it's dark or change my eye color to match the characters. I think the most I ever shopped out was stretch marks, they normally don't show up in photos, but some times they do and they bug me.
People say I'm photogenic but I don't think so, I've always hated photos and looked bad in them when I was younger. But cosplaying and maturing has made me gain confidence. I have never used photoshop, as I don't own it, but I have similar programs. The only thing I've ever done to some photos is brighten the lighting. But those were pictures that I don't have on here. I'm not 100% happy with some of the pictures people take of me, but I upload them anyway, just to show and say "Hey, this is a crappy photo, but it's real so you can see every detail of the costume as it is". Then you stick nicer photos in your gallery also. I find it gives a nice balance into your gallery. So if you want to photoshop to the extreme, go ahead, but give reference to at least one photo of the REAL thing in normal view.

That's my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii Pocky View Post
And as for 4Chan...I'm not allowed to go there on my bf's pc. So I wouldn't know. lol
4chan is full of losers, I find. I hate the layout of the website, it really annoys me. Besides, I've never found anything interesting to read on there. Last time I viewed it, people were constantly talking about fapping over cosplayers as if they don't get any.
__________________
~Future/Planned Cosplays~
Sera Myu Eternal Sailor Moon - Sera Myu Musicals - 95%
Mew Berry (Café version) - Tokyo Mew Mew Á la Mode
Usagi Tsukino (School Uniform) - Sailor Moon
Sailor Cosmos - Sailor Moon Sailor Stars
Bubbles - Powerpuff Girls Z

x-Steffi-x is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-14-2011, 05:43 PM   #65
HMTQ - Madge
Registered User
 
HMTQ - Madge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 558
I don't mind enhancing photos. Things like fixing blemishes and wrinkles, or changing the background and lighting I don't mind. Especially if it adds to the artistic effect. However, once you've started changing your physically appearance significantly... Things like photoshopping yourself to appear thinner feel unnecessary to me. If you're that self-conscious, cosplaying isn't the right hobby for you. It's about fun, not a competition to see who is the thinnest or prettiest.
HMTQ - Madge is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-15-2011, 06:03 PM   #66
brucer007
Bruce Heinsius
 
brucer007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,277
Cosplay photography is photography of cosplay. It is not cosplay. Changing the photo in photoshop should not be wrong. You don't have to agree with it or like it, but photographers and cosplayers have a right to make the photo how they like it. That is not wrong. It would be wrong to deny them of that.

As a photographer, I don't want others to tell me how I should do my art. I don't mind if they tell me they don't like the end result, but I might be pleased with what I intended to do. I might not like how a costume looks, but I am not the creator of it. So, I would not tell a cosplayer that what they made it is wrong.

I agree that wearing shape modifying clothing is just as deceptive as using photoshop, but unlike what x-Steffi-x said in post #64, it can be permanent in photos, just as photoshop can be.

Cosplay photography does not have to be accurate representations of the costumes. There are plenty of photographers for that.

Of course, some will like the amount of photoshop used; others won't.

Why must we psycho-analyze those who choose to change how they look in photos? Do they have to be comfortable with how they look? No. If they can look better in photos, why not do it? Photography and cosplay both include fantasy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMTQ - Madge View Post
Things like photoshopping yourself to appear thinner feel unnecessary to me. If you're that self-conscious, cosplaying isn't the right hobby for you. It's about fun, not a competition to see who is the thinnest or prettiest.
If people want to cosplay and have their photos photoshopped, cosplay can still be the right hobby. Everyone has their own way to participate.

Last edited by brucer007 : 02-15-2011 at 06:07 PM.
brucer007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-15-2011, 06:41 PM   #67
Kawaii Pocky
I a shower, not a grower!
 
Kawaii Pocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,130
I'm do photography as a hobby, I'm not a professional. But I know if I took a photo of some one in cosplay or not. That if the photo wasn't flattering to them I wouldn't it upload it, or I would atleast send it to the person and ask if they wanted me to or not

But any way, when it comes to shape wear, while it may be just as bad and psing yourself, even skinny people have areas on their bodies that are lumpy or rolls or what ever. You can also use shape wear to smooth out inperfections on your body as well as making yourself look thinner then you actually are. I know not all thinner people have rolls and things like that, but it's not unreal either.
__________________
2013 Planned Anime Cons:
Shutocon
Youmacon
Planned Cosplays 2013:
C.C. - Code Geass (100%)
Akihiko Sanada - Persona 3 (100%)
Lolita - (100%)
Yukiko Alt Color - Persona 3/Persona 4 Arena (planned)
Catherine - Catherine (planned)
Sebastian - Black Butler (planned)
Shiro Lolita - (planned)
Kawaii Pocky is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-15-2011, 07:17 PM   #68
Hanyaan
at paranoia's poison door
 
Hanyaan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,559
I prefer to not shop my photos to the point where someone encountering me after having only seen my photos would be like "wait wtf, that's you?!" because I shooped myself to not look like myself.

On the other hand, I will very much admit to a dislike of too much photoshop. I'm in this hobby for the costumes. When you're light-skinned and wearing a light outfit and you've put the contrast to MAXIMUM and I'm tilting back the screen to see any details of your outfit or face... that's distracting and no sir, I don't like it. When the photoshop has hit the point where I can't actually see the cosplay any more, that's too much.
Hanyaan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-16-2011, 02:05 AM   #69
x-Steffi-x
UK Cosplayer...x
 
x-Steffi-x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucer007 View Post
I agree that wearing shape modifying clothing is just as deceptive as using photoshop, but unlike what x-Steffi-x said in post #64, it can be permanent in photos, just as photoshop can be.
Ah, I see what you mean, I didn't think of that, I said temporary in a way of wearing it at the con, I wasn't referring to it being temporary in a photo because like you said, that's permanent.
__________________
~Future/Planned Cosplays~
Sera Myu Eternal Sailor Moon - Sera Myu Musicals - 95%
Mew Berry (Café version) - Tokyo Mew Mew Á la Mode
Usagi Tsukino (School Uniform) - Sailor Moon
Sailor Cosmos - Sailor Moon Sailor Stars
Bubbles - Powerpuff Girls Z

x-Steffi-x is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-16-2011, 09:08 AM   #70
alpha_helix
beer + costumes
 
alpha_helix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,094
First off, I find it funny that this big huge discussion was started over a site that's obviously trolling. I'm not the first to point it out, but, yeah, it bears repeating that many of those are reverse shopped, most are an extremely poor job, and I bet that most of these were done without the cosplayer's or photographer's knowledge. This doesn't represent what the vast, vast majority of people who retouch photos. Also, can I take this time to point out that the word "photoshopping" as a synonym for "retouching" kind of bothers me? Most of the things one can do to an image don't have to do with making your model prettier.

As for my opinions on the matter, I really don't give a damn what other people do with their own images. It's their photo, they can do whatever makes them happy. I wouldn't do it, but whatever. Now, if I got back a photo that was heavily retouched without my consent, honestly, I'd be pretty annoyed. Correcting minor mildly distracting things is okay (such as toning down the shine on your model's forehead, fixing a lazy eye, or concealing a stray bra strap), but if I could tell that my appearance had been significantly changed, I probably wonder why the way I look as is wasn't good enough. I know that is probably rarely a photographer's intent, but it's something that's good to keep in mind. Issues related to body image are extremely touchy.

Finally, I'd like to add that I don't think that shapewear, makeup, etc are deceptive in the same way that retouching is. With the former, you're still operating in the realm of reality, but once you start to go heavy on the retouching, you're getting into fiction (but if that's what you want, cool). That and I've dealt with foundation garment enough to understand that they're not about making you look better, they're about making your clothes look better--a subtle yet important distinction.
__________________
Next Con: Dragon Con
Finished costumes: Luthien (The Silmarilion), Joffrey Baratheon (Game of Thrones) Lady Loki (Thor comics), Tevinter noble (Dragon Age: World of Thedas)
In Progress: The Bitch (genderbent Hound, Game of Thrones)
youtube channel! Facebook Page
alpha_helix is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-16-2011, 02:51 PM   #71
brucer007
Bruce Heinsius
 
brucer007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,277
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha_helix View Post
Finally, I'd like to add that I don't think that shapewear, makeup, etc are deceptive in the same way that retouching is. With the former, you're still operating in the realm of reality, but once you start to go heavy on the retouching, you're getting into fiction (but if that's what you want, cool). That and I've dealt with foundation garment enough to understand that they're not about making you look better, they're about making your clothes look better--a subtle yet important distinction.
I disagree. Shapewear is not operating in any more in reality than retouching photos to look slimmer. When you take off the shapewear, you will still look overweight. It is just as deceptive as photoshop retouching.

Shapewear IS about making people look better. I think people are much more concerned about how they look, over how their clothes look. If your clothes look better on you, you look better.
brucer007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-16-2011, 02:58 PM   #72
Axelai
I'm Awesome
 
Axelai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,405
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucer007 View Post
I disagree. Shapewear is not operating in any more in reality than retouching photos to look slimmer. When you take off the shapewear, you will still look overweight. It is just as deceptive as photoshop retouching.

Shapewear IS about making people look better. I think people are much more concerned about how they look, over how their clothes look. If your clothes look better on you, you look better.
I think the difference is Shapewear isn't LYING like photoshop is. Minor alterations in photoshop is fine, as its all things they PROBABLY could have done in real life, had they the not had that acne breakout, or that one weird wrinkle on the costume.

But doing things like completely reshaping your body... that's lying. It's as if you completely recreated yourself. You're not even the same person.

If you do, like i said, small alterations you could have obtained had you owned that corset, etc, its fine. A little deceptive, but who doesn't want to look good? But if you go and turn yourself from someone EXTREMELY overweight into a TWIG... that'd being extremely deceptive, and just proving you really have no self confidence if you have to do something like that to be happy.

There should be a line drawn on how much photoshopping you should do. If you're not even recognizable as the same person after you're done... thats... really not right to me.

I'm not saying not to do it. Do what you want. I'm not stopping you. I just don't agree with what you do.

Changing lighting, scenery, etc, for artistic purposes though, is entirely different.
__________________
Upcoming Conventions:
SacAnime, Anime LA, Anime Conji

~Cure deviantART Tumblr Fan Page~

Vote for me at the Otaku House costume contest!!
Axelai is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-16-2011, 03:00 PM   #73
Shuko
Registered User
 
Shuko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucer007 View Post
I disagree. Shapewear is not operating in any more in reality than retouching photos to look slimmer. When you take off the shapewear, you will still look overweight. It is just as deceptive as photoshop retouching.
I don't wear shapewear to look slimmer. :x I wear it to keep people from seeing my knickers through my spandex, lol.

I think that bears a little more on the "making clothes look better" side of things than "making myself look better." My knickers aren't my cellulite, after all. xD
Shuko is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-16-2011, 03:48 PM   #74
alpha_helix
beer + costumes
 
alpha_helix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucer007 View Post
I disagree. Shapewear is not operating in any more in reality than retouching photos to look slimmer. When you take off the shapewear, you will still look overweight. It is just as deceptive as photoshop retouching.

Shapewear IS about making people look better. I think people are much more concerned about how they look, over how their clothes look. If your clothes look better on you, you look better.
I think you missed the point. Why something like shapewear is more "real" is because a person wearing shapewear exists. They are real. The changes they made exist in reality, that's what someone who sees them in person sees. Drastically altering a photo blurs those lines when you star creating something that no one ever saw or will see in person and you draw from the realm of things that only exist in the creator's head.

To use another example; one could have a sculpture that through clever engineering appears to defy the laws of physics. Someone else could take a photo of a sculpture that appears to follow normal laws of physics and manipulate it to appear to have the same gravity defying features as the first. One is real, the other is an illusion. One is a psychical object that occupies space, the other is an effervescent image.

I don't mean any of this to be insulting at all, I just want to make it clear that I don't think you can really talk on the same terms when likening something that actually existed in reality as compared to a representation of reality as altered by the creator's whims.
__________________
Next Con: Dragon Con
Finished costumes: Luthien (The Silmarilion), Joffrey Baratheon (Game of Thrones) Lady Loki (Thor comics), Tevinter noble (Dragon Age: World of Thedas)
In Progress: The Bitch (genderbent Hound, Game of Thrones)
youtube channel! Facebook Page
alpha_helix is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-16-2011, 03:55 PM   #75
x-Steffi-x
UK Cosplayer...x
 
x-Steffi-x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha_helix View Post
I think you missed the point. Why something like shapewear is more "real" is because a person wearing shapewear exists. They are real. The changes they made exist in reality, that's what someone who sees them in person sees. Drastically altering a photo blurs those lines when you star creating something that no one ever saw or will see in person and you draw from the realm of things that only exist in the creator's head.

To use another example; one could have a sculpture that through clever engineering appears to defy the laws of physics. Someone else could take a photo of a sculpture that appears to follow normal laws of physics and manipulate it to appear to have the same gravity defying features as the first. One is real, the other is an illusion. One is a psychical object that occupies space, the other is an effervescent image.

I don't mean any of this to be insulting at all, I just want to make it clear that I don't think you can really talk on the same terms when likening something that actually existed in reality as compared to a representation of reality as altered by the creator's whims.
Completely agree 100%
__________________
~Future/Planned Cosplays~
Sera Myu Eternal Sailor Moon - Sera Myu Musicals - 95%
Mew Berry (Café version) - Tokyo Mew Mew Á la Mode
Usagi Tsukino (School Uniform) - Sailor Moon
Sailor Cosmos - Sailor Moon Sailor Stars
Bubbles - Powerpuff Girls Z

x-Steffi-x is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:11 PM.


Copyright 2002-2013 Cosplay.com, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
All comments and posts in our forums are the opinion of the respective poster.