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Unread 02-21-2011, 09:11 AM   #1
DireKitty
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Current Events General Thread

Right now Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Yemen, Jordan, Bahrain and other countries are protesting their governments, already Egypt and Tunisia have created a revolution.

What are your thoughts on this amazing domino effect bringing change to the middle east?
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Unread 02-21-2011, 11:01 AM   #2
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Finally! Someone has made a thread about this. Being an anarchist(and someone who just loves freedom in general), I'm absolutely loving what's going on right now. This is how freedom is achieved, by the people taking it, not military intervention.
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Unread 02-21-2011, 11:27 AM   #3
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Finally! Someone has made a thread about this. Being an anarchist(and someone who just loves freedom in general), I'm absolutely loving what's going on right now. This is how freedom is achieved, by the people taking it, not military intervention.
It all started in Tunisia with a fruit vendor who was sick and tired of making 10 dollars a day, and then having his scale taken by some corrupt bureaucrat who wanted a bribe to get it back. He set himself on fire in front of the local government office, and later died, but he sparked a revolution of people just like him, who were sick and tired of never getting anywhere in life while they sat on their thrones pulling billions of dollars out of the country.

I'm hopeful it doesn't end there, and that these other countries are also able to bring about change and get what they want, democracy.
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Unread 02-21-2011, 11:56 AM   #4
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Me too. The situation in Egypt really worries me though. Mubarak may have "stepped down" but the military is now in charge. I hope it ends up more like Costa Rica than Burma.

Alot of people tend to think that people in the middle east are primitive but really they're no different than us. They want freedom and to not live in poverty. This video here really captures the protests in Egypt well.
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Unread 02-21-2011, 12:10 PM   #5
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It's hard to have an informed opinion on all of this when you aren't there (Like me). As much as this information age makes everything available to us through the media, through the internet, through people living there retelling the events --- there's something that's still lost in the process and that people interpret however they want.

Still, I'm on the fence right now, none of us can really say what changes this will bring in the end (Whether it will be good for the people who living in those countries --- at least those who are left when this ends).

There's a lot of mob mentality that seems to be going on over there, I might be a little bold in saying some of the damage being wrought is just for the sake of causing it.
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Unread 02-21-2011, 12:40 PM   #6
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There's a lot of mob mentality that seems to be going on over there, I might be a little bold in saying some of the damage being wrought is just for the sake of causing it.
There will always be lawless thugs who will take advantage of social and political unrest for their own gain. That's true everywhere, including the U.S. (maybe not in Canada - they seem awfully nice! ^_~) I agree with both your points though that we at a distance can't know exactly what is going on and that the future is uncertain. But as a path to democracy, mostly non-violent home-grown political defiance has a better chance to succeed than armed invasion and occupation by foreigners - not to mention the added benefit of fewer deaths and refugees. I choose to be optimistic for now.
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Unread 02-21-2011, 01:17 PM   #7
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That's true everywhere, including the U.S. (maybe not in Canada - they seem awfully nice! ^_~)
Amusing you'd say that in a thread where only Canadians replied yet

But on a serious note, it's not entirely the case. There frequently damage done around the big cities (Especially Montreal) in Québec when large events happen.

It's been heavily noticed to happen during Hockey events, like victories of the local team --- the people doing the damage are not even fans, but using the events as cover for their wrong-doings.
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Unread 02-21-2011, 01:45 PM   #8
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Even though I think that this firestorm in the middle east is a good thing for freedom there is still the long and hard road of forming a new goverment. In my opinion, we should not only focus on the present but to the future of these countries to make sure that these new goverments will be ones based on well being for all its people.
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Unread 02-21-2011, 02:23 PM   #9
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well, Im just praying that my friends and I wont be sent there And for those who are praising this as "change"? thats what happened to Iran. the shah was deposed and replaced with a megolomaniacal dictator. If they all adopt true democracy, awesome. I know there were people who had a pipe dream of bringing democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan would cause the countries around them to revolt, which may not have been much of a pipe dream after all. However, nothing is stopping a super-religious government stepping in either. No matter what, though, this seems big. Iran is still recovering from 2009, and they were the only one's dealing with an uprising. I have a feeling that gains in one country will motivate protesters in other countries.

TL;DR
Arabs are either going to embrace democracy, work it, and maintain the same or better relations with the US, or they are going to fall into the hands of Iranian bullshit and turn on us. I don't see a middle ground here. It's up to us to be proactive in giving our support behind their transition, but I fear we're not doing enough right now.

When places like Kuwait and Bahrain start going down this road, it kind of gets scary, because I've never known of of any major problems in those countries. They just seem to pissed off--which is definetly their right if it is warranted--at things going on. Hopefully they don't direct it towards us
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Unread 02-21-2011, 02:48 PM   #10
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I say good for them! I hope their revolutions for Democracy succeed, and more people have more human rights.
... Now then, America. Let's not get involved in this. C8
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Unread 02-21-2011, 03:28 PM   #11
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I'm taking a class on Middle Eastern Politics, so I know somewhat about what is going on.
One thing I've learned, America gets involved with everything in the middle east mainly because of Israel and oil. (The biggest lobby in America is the AIPAC...)

Another thing I learned, Egypt and Tunisia had it coming they just needed the spark. In Egypt, the Military being in power is the best bet since it is the largest group in Egypt, also all of Egypt's leaders have been military men. They are also well respected and own a amount of companies.

As far as democracy goes, people have it totally wrong. It does not always work, HAMAS came into power in the West Bank thru a vote....HAMAS is a terrorist organization.... In the nations rebelling and rioting the the group you have to worry about coming into power is the Muslim Brotherhood. (In Egypt's last vote, they came in second to Mubarak....they are illegal in Egypt....)

Quite honestly, I'd prefer a government like Saudi Arabia than to have a the Muslim Brotherhood go into power in a vote....
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Unread 02-21-2011, 03:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Formalhaut View Post
well, Im just praying that my friends and I wont be sent there And for those who are praising this as "change"? thats what happened to Iran. the shah was deposed and replaced with a megolomaniacal dictator. If they all adopt true democracy, awesome. I know there were people who had a pipe dream of bringing democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan would cause the countries around them to revolt, which may not have been much of a pipe dream after all. However, nothing is stopping a super-religious government stepping in either. No matter what, though, this seems big. Iran is still recovering from 2009, and they were the only one's dealing with an uprising. I have a feeling that gains in one country will motivate protesters in other countries.

TL;DR
Arabs are either going to embrace democracy, work it, and maintain the same or better relations with the US, or they are going to fall into the hands of Iranian bullshit and turn on us. I don't see a middle ground here. It's up to us to be proactive in giving our support behind their transition, but I fear we're not doing enough right now.

When places like Kuwait and Bahrain start going down this road, it kind of gets scary, because I've never known of of any major problems in those countries. They just seem to pissed off--which is definetly their right if it is warranted--at things going on. Hopefully they don't direct it towards us
I don't think middle easterners are going to put up with theocracies or authoritarian dictators anymore. Iran is a perfect example, they're sick of their theocracy. Then there's Egypt where christians and muslims basically united together. There's also the possibility they'll have a democracy and still say "fuck you and your shit" to the US and I wouldn't blame them. Their dictators have been supported by the US for decades(with the exception of Iran and Saddam after the 80s). From all I gather of the protests, there hasn't really been any anti-western sentiment.

From what I've read about Bahrain, the majority of the population are shiites(about 70%) who are being ruled by a sunni monarchy. Kuwait is also ruled by a monarchy.

It's the victories in Egypt and Tunisia that have inspired the other countries. Remember, these are all authoritarian regimes that people are revolting against. Hell I'm surprised there haven't been mass protests in Afghanistan yet, it's considered ever more authoritarian than Egypt and Tunisia according to the democracy index.

And for anyone curious, look up Operation Ajax.
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Unread 02-21-2011, 04:13 PM   #13
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All Im saying, this might not be the rose garden people think it could be. and theres a reason for there being no riots in Ghan right now, for instance, the WAR. Ive been there, and ANY sort of activity that could be classified as something of the sort was quickly quelled by us or them. its almost happened, though with the state that place is in now, they kinda have more important things to worry about.
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Unread 02-21-2011, 05:01 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Kildread View Post
Amusing you'd say that in a thread where only Canadians replied yet
Hey, I was going to point that out! XD

What I have noticed from my Canadian contacts is that they are, by default, much more generally informed of world events and are able to speak about it much more casually, so maybe we were all just waiting for them to start the ball rolling on this topic..?
Excellent idea for a thread, though, guys. ^_-
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Unread 02-21-2011, 05:04 PM   #15
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I don't think anyones suggesting that this is all rainbows and butterflies. I think people are just happy that these populations have stopped allowing themselves to be repressed and are fighting for change. They want to choose who leads their countries, and I think they should have that right. For better or worse - and these elections should be fair and balanced - without the stain of corruption. And in X number of years they should have the option of electing a new leader if they felt the one they chose acted in a manner not befitting of a leader. Will it be easy? Hell no. Will it be hard? Hell yes. But Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will these countries be rebuilt.

Edit: BLUSH! The All-Seeing Eye responded to my little post. Tea? Coffee?
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