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Unread 05-31-2016, 01:22 PM   #1
AlecCorbett
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Why are there suddenly so many transgender cosplayers?

This was a pattern I've noticed recently and its really obvious on social media.

I've noticed the association with tumblr, yaoi / bl anime, and lots of labels to describe one's gender / sexual identity. What gets me is when I see some labels that seem contradictory. For example how can you be both gay and non-binary (shouldn't it be pan)? Or Asexual AND pansexual (aren't these literally complete opposites of one another). And then I've seen other labels that can't even be possible (wolfkin, ageless, etc. etc. ).

So why are so many young (biological) females doing this? Like, I don't see many trans-girl / trans-woman cosplayers. Even among male crossplayers, most I know still identify as being male. And many are still hetero. I've heard some theories. For example, the stories behind hetero relationships are just not that great or female focused. Which would make sense since, in most cases, it is men that are writing them. Gay relationships have better equality and are thus more attractive. In a sense, this could be rebellion against some of the mysogynist gender norms that are already in place. E.G. 'If your going to penalize us for being women, then we won't be women anymore.'.

I just can't get why maleness seems like it is being 'romanticized'. Like I can understand wanting to wear binders, short hair, male pronouns, etc. etc. I've known women that do this but still identify as female. Since there are certain aspects of feminity that are much deeper. As a cis-het male myself, it seems like maleness is being made to be something its not. Like Its great to not be sexualized or be subject to mysogyny, but living as a male has its own set of problems. Sometimes your invisible, people don't recognize your emotions, and expect you to be violent and aggressive. I do with people would consider this before changing their identity. As maleness isn't something to be taken lightly.

Anyway other thoughts? Cosplay is great because it lets you play around with these ideas. But there is something very different between expressing a gender or sexuality and actually identifying with it. Remember places like tumblr, where these ideas can often pop up, are not great mediums for communication. They are echo chambers devoid of any back and forth discussion . That can be great for fostering revolutionary ideas that challenge social norms but bad since there is little scrutiny to ideas that are radical. I feel something similiar about romantization of mental illness but that is a different topic.

On a personal level, I am careful to not challenge the notion that so many people really do identify this way. That could be the case, but I am also cautiously skeptical too. Like I'll respect your pronouns but ask you to think critical about some of the ways which you are identifying.
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Unread 06-01-2016, 11:41 AM   #2
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So I identify as biromantic-demisexual and I've taken a few courses on human sexuality as part of my degree. But I still don't have an easy answer for this one.

I dislike what tumblr has done for the LGBT community personally, because while thanks to the internet we now have more information than ever before on LGBT identities and labels, unfortunately there is also a lot of misinformation too. And while there are many other culprits, tumblr seems to be the biggest place for perpetuating misinformation on LGBT labels.

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On a personal level, I am careful to not challenge the notion that so many people really do identify this way. That could be the case, but I am also cautiously skeptical too. Like I'll respect your pronouns but ask you to think critical about some of the ways which you are identifying.
If you tell me you identify as something, I'll respect your identity. But what I find is that if I personally don't understand someone else's identity, I'll ask questions.

In our program, we're taught that when working with a client and they tell you they identify as something and you're not 100% sure what that entails, you would say something along the lines of, "I know what that term means to me. But what does that term mean for you?"

I wish I had a better answer for you and I'm not even sure where I'm going with this anymore to be honest, but that's just my two cents.
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Unread 06-01-2016, 06:30 PM   #3
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It seems there's a lot you don't understand about identity and it's probably something no one here can explain to you in full without it being suuuuuper long. I think you'd better research these topics yourself.

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Originally Posted by AlecCorbett View Post
And then I've seen other labels that can't even be possible (wolfkin, ageless, etc. etc. ).
I understand not understanding how someone feels/identifies, but it's rude to say they can't be real just because we don't understand something, at least out loud. (But discussion is good).

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Originally Posted by AlecCorbett View Post
I just can't get why maleness seems like it is being 'romanticized'. Like I can understand wanting to wear binders, short hair, male pronouns, etc. etc. I've known women that do this but still identify as female. Since there are certain aspects of feminity that are much deeper. As a cis-het male myself, it seems like maleness is being made to be something its not. Like Its great to not be sexualized or be subject to mysogyny, but living as a male has its own set of problems. Sometimes your invisible, people don't recognize your emotions, and expect you to be violent and aggressive. I do with people would consider this before changing their identity. As maleness isn't something to be taken lightly.
I don't think you have a good grasp on what "gender" is, I don't think "maleness" is being romanticized, it's just how one feels, you shouldn't police that. Sure it has it's own set of problems, but so does every other gender and people know this. Please realize that women do not have the same privileges as men and trans people have experienced the differences when they've transitioned.

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Remember places like tumblr, where these ideas can often pop up, are not great mediums for communication. They are echo chambers devoid of any back and forth discussion . That can be great for fostering revolutionary ideas that challenge social norms but bad since there is little scrutiny to ideas that are radical.
As for tumblr, this is not true. Tumblr is where I've learned about all this stuff. They are certainly not devoid of discussion, it all depends on what you choose to see and who you choose to follow. Believe it or not, it's not just "sjws" and "anti-sjws" yelling at each other.

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Originally Posted by AlecCorbett View Post
On a personal level, I am careful to not challenge the notion that so many people really do identify this way. That could be the case, but I am also cautiously skeptical too. Like I'll respect your pronouns but ask you to think critical about some of the ways which you are identifying.
May I know what you're cautiously skeptical of people's identities? And also why someone would need to think critically about how they identify?
-
And simply put to answer your title question, there are so many transgender cosplayers because there are so many human cosplayers in general.
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Unread 06-01-2016, 07:17 PM   #4
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^josplay I think you might've addressed this topic better than I could've.

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As for tumblr, this is not true. Tumblr is where I've learned about all this stuff. They are certainly not devoid of discussion, it all depends on what you choose to see and who you choose to follow. Believe it or not, it's not just "sjws" and "anti-sjws" yelling at each other.
I may be spending time on the wrong side of tumblr then...
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Unread 06-01-2016, 08:01 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by AlaizabelCray View Post
^josplay I think you might've addressed this topic better than I could've.



I may be spending time on the wrong side of tumblr then...
Thank you haha. And that very well could be it, I've been at it for years and me and my blog have grown and changed all the while. There are soooooo many people and blogs there, it could definitely take a while to find the kinds of people you want to associate with.
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Unread 06-02-2016, 06:47 AM   #6
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I don't touch tumblr with a 10 foot pole honestly. I've been on there before but much of it is mostly messy and seems like it'd be troublesome to use. I think people just gotta do some research on stuff before they hop on the ban wagon of using it for something. Even I've had to do research on things myself. Like for example, if someone is non-binary/agender then they could be either gynosexual(attracted to females or feminitity) or androsexual(attracted to males or masculinity).
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Unread 06-02-2016, 09:58 AM   #7
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Part of the reason there are "suddenly" a lot of trans cosplayers is that with a changing political climate, many LGBTQ people now feel comfortable with coming out at a younger age-- often the same age when people start getting into cosplay.
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Unread 06-02-2016, 10:16 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by KuruttaKanashii View Post
Part of the reason there are "suddenly" a lot of trans cosplayers is that with a changing political climate, many LGBTQ people now feel comfortable with coming out at a younger age-- often the same age when people start getting into cosplay.
Seconding this! I work in a high school, and there are significantly more out LGBT people who feel comfortable just being themselves. Many of these people have always felt uncomfortable with the persona they had to display (pretending to be straight or cis-gender). Therefore, with the recent public displays of acceptance, people who would rather do trans cosplays probably feel more comfortable with wearing their cosplays in public. Now, I can't say that any of this comes from personal experience (I'm extremely happy that I'm a girl and am definitely not trans in any way), but for those who are, I can see why they would start to feel more comfortable now.

@Alec: I also used to notice extreme gender identity association used on Tumblr. Now, I can understand saying that you're bi, pan, asexual, or any other sexuality. But when they directly contradict themselves (like saying that you're both asexual and pansexual), it starts to be more of a question of "Are you just doing this for attention? Because you're honestly offending people who actually ARE one of those identities." And yes, the exact same thing happens with the "romantization of mental illness" as you so eloquently put it. That's exactly what I used to see happening on Tumblr. It's pretty much why I left a couple of years ago. You can't escape the hoardes of people on Tumblr who claim to have mental illnesses (depression is a big one, along with suicidal tendencies and eating disorders) that obviously do it for attention and pity. Sure, there might be some people who actually have these illnesses. But, from what I know about people with depression, they're much more likely to lay in bed all day instead of getting on their phone to take sad selfies and moan about how much their life sucks. The latter just sounds like a normal teenager... It's a bit upsetting, because this gives people who actually have these mental illnesses a bad reputation.
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Unread 06-02-2016, 10:51 PM   #9
Magyarita
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I am an AFAB (assigned female at birth) genderfluid person, and I'll try to answer some of your questions.

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Originally Posted by AlecCorbett View Post
What gets me is when I see some labels that seem contradictory. For example how can you be both gay and non-binary (shouldn't it be pan)? Or Asexual AND pansexual (aren't these literally complete opposites of one another).
Some people ID as gay and nonbinary because they may be on one area of the gender spectrum and like people in that area too. (ex. a feminine nonbinary person liking women/feminine people, a masculine nonbinary person liking men/masculine people, or an androgynous nonbinary person liking other androgynous people)

Also, I know people who ID as ace/pan mean that they're either an asexual panromantic (do not experience sexual attraction to anyone, but can fall in love with any gender) or an aromantic pansexual. (Does not fall in love, but is sexually attracted to any gender.) Not everyone's sexual/romatic orientations line up perfectly. (For example, my ex is a cis guy who is a bisexual heteroromantic. He enjoys sex with multiple genders, but is only attracted romantically to women/feminine people.)

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So why are so many young (biological) females doing this? Like, I don't see many trans-girl / trans-woman cosplayers. Even among male crossplayers, most I know still identify as being male. And many are still hetero. I've heard some theories. For example, the stories behind hetero relationships are just not that great or female focused. Which would make sense since, in most cases, it is men that are writing them. Gay relationships have better equality and are thus more attractive. In a sense, this could be rebellion against some of the mysogynist gender norms that are already in place. E.G. 'If your going to penalize us for being women, then we won't be women anymore.'.

I just can't get why maleness seems like it is being 'romanticized'. Like I can understand wanting to wear binders, short hair, male pronouns, etc. etc. I've known women that do this but still identify as female. Since there are certain aspects of feminity that are much deeper. As a cis-het male myself, it seems like maleness is being made to be something its not. Like Its great to not be sexualized or be subject to mysogyny, but living as a male has its own set of problems. Sometimes your invisible, people don't recognize your emotions, and expect you to be violent and aggressive. I do with people would consider this before changing their identity. As maleness isn't something to be taken lightly.
Um...I don't think you understand gender identity.

1. Trans men and AFAB nonbinary people are more likely to come out than trans women and AMAB (assigned male at birth) nonbinary people are because society is more accepting of AFAB people breaking traditional gender norms. Nobody is going to bat an eye at me if I wear men's clothing sometimes. But even in very progressive areas, people will stare in disgust at an AMAB person shopping in the women's section or wearing feminine clothing.

2. Those women that you know that do that sound like cis tomboys then. Gender roles =/= gender identity. Not all people who break traditional gender roles are trans/nonbinary, and not all trans/nonbinary people break traditional gender roles.

3. Neither I, nor any AFAB trans/nonbinary person I know, ID's as trans/nonbinary because of misogyny. I've known I was different from about the ages of 3 or 4, long before I ever knew about the concept of misogyny or experienced it. It took me about 14 years to figure out my genderfluidity, and most of my trans/nonbinary friends years to figure out, it's not something we take lightly. Also, I don't think you meant it, but that honestly comes off as really patronizing.

4. A nonbinary friend of mine came up with a hypothesis of why so many trans/nonbinary people are into fandoms and cosplay. They think that since we often don't fit in as children and teens, we tend to gravitate towards nerdier cliques, since those tend to be the most accepting of others who are a bit different. (Like how a lot of LGBT+ people are in the arts, like fashion, music, theater, visual arts, etc. We're not any more creative or talented than cis-het people, but the arts have traditionally always been more accepting of those who are a little different than other fields, so LGBT+ people tend to gravitate towards that.) I know that's what happened with me and most of my queer friends.

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Anyway other thoughts? Cosplay is great because it lets you play around with these ideas. But there is something very different between expressing a gender or sexuality and actually identifying with it. Remember places like tumblr, where these ideas can often pop up, are not great mediums for communication. They are echo chambers devoid of any back and forth discussion . That can be great for fostering revolutionary ideas that challenge social norms but bad since there is little scrutiny to ideas that are radical. I feel something similiar about romantization of mental illness but that is a different topic.

On a personal level, I am careful to not challenge the notion that so many people really do identify this way. That could be the case, but I am also cautiously skeptical too. Like I'll respect your pronouns but ask you to think critical about some of the ways which you are identifying.
Tumblr did not invent being trans or nonbinary. Many cultures around the world have recognized both binary and nonbinary trans people for thousands of years. (Look up mahu, muxe, hijra, two-spirit, fa'fafine, etc.) Even the pronouns I go by (xe/xem/xyr) were invented long before tumblr. (They can be found in Mario Pei's book Weasel Words: The Art of Saying What You Don't Mean, published in 1978.)

I don't know if you meant it or not, but this last part really does sound like you think you know trans/nonbinary people better than we know ourselves. And pardon my French, but that's really douchey.

(Not to mention that Tumblr actually does have a lot of users and blogs that totally conflict stereotypical SJW rhetoric. You just only hear about the SJW stuff. Just like how not everyone on 4chan or Reddit is a heartless asshole, not everyone on Tumblr is a rabid SJW either.)
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Unread 06-03-2016, 12:47 AM   #10
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there are probably "suddenly" so many because a lot of them didn't realize it was something they could even do until they saw other people succeeding at it. this is not the same thing as a "fad," btw.

a personal example: i have always been asexual but i didn't realize there was a term for it until i was nearly thirty. you mean there were others i could date who wouldn't want an intimate physical relationship i was told was necessary to be accepted as another human's romantic partner??

crazy!!!!

cosplay also allows people to safely experiment with being seen and treated as another gender in a place that is generally accepting of those experimenting. some may find that being seen as a different gender makes them feel more complete or that it was the missing piece of themselves they've been struggling to find. it's harder to have that opportunity "in real life" but since it's acceptable for cis people to crossplay, especially cis women, conventions are a good way for people to try it temporarily without much personal risk.
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Unread 06-03-2016, 07:16 AM   #11
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there are probably "suddenly" so many because a lot of them didn't realize it was something they could even do until they saw other people succeeding at it. this is not the same thing as a "fad," btw.

a personal example: i have always been asexual but i didn't realize there was a term for it until i was nearly thirty. you mean there were others i could date who wouldn't want an intimate physical relationship i was told was necessary to be accepted as another human's romantic partner??

crazy!!!!

cosplay also allows people to safely experiment with being seen and treated as another gender in a place that is generally accepting of those experimenting. some may find that being seen as a different gender makes them feel more complete or that it was the missing piece of themselves they've been struggling to find. it's harder to have that opportunity "in real life" but since it's acceptable for cis people to crossplay, especially cis women, conventions are a good way for people to try it temporarily without much personal risk.
I can second this; a lot of my earlier cosplay attempts were my best attempt at expressing my gender before I came out (and I know of at least one transgirl whose into cosplay for the same reason).

Also, regarding multiple sexualities; as an asexual myself, I can confirm that some of us are asexual, but not aromantic (so they still want a relationship, just not a sexual one, and their preference covers the same range of hetero, homo, bi or pan as sexual relationships), perhaps that's where the confusion's coming from?
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Unread 06-03-2016, 08:10 AM   #12
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Yeah, that could be the case. Asexuality and uh romanticism are also spectrums, which can also complicate things for people on the outside. Also a lot of people equate asexuality with "willingness to have sex" which is inaccurate. It's based on attraction. Asexuals do not experience a desire to be with individuals in a sexual way. This doesn't mean certain asexuals won't/can't engage in physical intimacy to please their partners, etc, but that's completely up to the particular asexual. It's possible for an asexual and a non asexual to date but nobody should enter into a relationship like that expecting eventual sex.

I'm some degree of aromantic (sex-averse/repulsed, find things like kissing to be invasive and weird and can live without but could do it if my partner wanted it) but have been on a relationship with another aromantic asexual. I'm not sure how I would describe that since my SO was nonbinary and I'm uh idk gender non conforming. I'm aesthetically attracted to androgynous and masculine individuals of all genders.

Tbh, this all can be complicated even for those of us not on the outside.
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Unread 06-03-2016, 09:30 AM   #13
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Ok, I'm honestly confused right now...even more after I read the comments. It might be language barrier or that I haven't eaten dinner yet, but as far as I understand the starting post is about biological female cosplayers who crossplay male anime characters from often (but not always) yaoi series?

Is thats...correct?
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Unread 06-03-2016, 09:38 AM   #14
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^ OP has just discovered a brave new world and isn't so good at describing or orienting himself yet. He's talking about a lot of different things at once, and in the course of doing it has mushed crossplay, nonbinary sexuality, transgender issues, and yaoi together into a bit of a mess.

To be fair, OP is also making some crappy assumptions about how he needs to both understand and approve of somebody's choices in that area for them to be okay. And he definitely doesn't understand things yet. So, there's that.
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Unread 06-03-2016, 09:52 AM   #15
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Okay, that makes sense...sort of.
I was suprised, because the whole crossplay of male characters and the popularity of yaoi/boyslove stories isn't really a new thing. To be honest, if I was an Animefan, I would be in the minority for not liking this genre. And liking yaoi/boyslove manga doesn't seem to be connected to the sexual orientation or gender identity of the female fans, from my perspective. I mean...thos stories are usually geared towards a female audiance. Hot and pretty boys + some cheesy romance = profit. A bit like the equivalent of guys liking yuri.

And cosplayers just chose their favorite characters for cosplay. Its just a consequence that yaoi fangirls will pick some male characters. Even more, because sometimes its easier for a women to pull off some bishonen anime character, than a guy trying to do that
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