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[LelouchYamazaki]

My punctuation, and grammer are horrid sadly I know it and acknowledge it, sad as i get older i've been getting worse, but I don't take it personally I do my best....that aside

Why should it matter if they have sponsors or not? if it helps an even organization to give more to the fans then what is the problem?

Could you go to a school like UCLA without financial aid? unless your parents are millionaires then yes, or if you worked your ass off hard its possible but will be pretty bad.

I just wonder how your post of Sponsors is relevant to the free or not free, its now become enterprise or non-enterprise

[Morrissey]

Originally Posted by Jr.

Let me put it this way could you run AM2 just the way your currently running without any sponsors at all.

Ridiculous. With the guests and scale AM2 is planning there is no way they can run the convention for free if they don't have sponsors. Neither can AX, Otakon, etc. AM2's business model is a free convention. Sure, AM2 will make some money from passports to cover costs but that won't cover everything. Please stop making such assumptions. You're making yourself look bad by spouting non-sense. Let's drop the conversation all together. Final answer: AM2 will be run by it's convention staff. Sponsors will have no say in how the convention will be run. They will have presence in advertising, exhibit booths, etc. just like any other convention. No other convention is run by it's sponsors and AM2 will be no different. I'm sure AM2's staff will run an outstanding convention with it's current business model.

[Blue6]

Originally Posted by Jr.

I am sorry but your picking this one ... is kind of cheating cause giving money to a anime convention which is a entertainment show and giving money to help people in japan are like apples and oranges. I can point out places such as college buildings in which people donate a large sum of money but expect that they have the building named after them. I believe there was a person not to long ago who didn't agree how they were running some college sports team he had donated money for there college gym and demanded the money back.

Naming buildings after someone is still not the same as having a say in how the college runs things.

As for your example about the sports team, source please? It doesn't sound like you're too sure about the details, so I'm questioning whether or not this is a fact. You need to support your claims.

[ElCapitan]

Originally Posted by Jr.

Let me put it this way could you run AM2 just the way your currently running without any sponsors at all.

Actually, you're just wrong. Sponsors don't inherently wreck a convention, but they're still important. All the cool prizing and giveaways typically come from sponsorships. If you want a recent example, just look at the complaints about the AX 2010 lanyards. That was due to lack of sponsorship. Ditching sponsors means less money, which in turns means we can't offer as much to attendees.

You apparently believe that sponsors are going to ruin AM², but can't provide any solid reasoning behind it. I've made several posts explaining why having sponsors doesn't cause problems, but you seem to be ignoring those counterpoints and dodging my questions. You clearly don't know very much about the topic you've brought up, and refuse to listen to the people who do.

It's looking more and more like you're just digging for excuses to make AM² look bad. If you want to be taken seriously, then I'd suggest you explain just what you're hoping to accomplish with this discussion and why.

[Jr.]

Well for one you just dodged answering my question and for another my whole thing has been about how can you sustain running a con that way. I work at a convention center I know non profits get a discount but not that much of one and being in Anaheim at the A.C.C as high priced venue I mean its all cool your offering the whole free option but if you think about it most of the people going to the con are going to take the free option and if your going to continue running the con with the free option you got to look at the long run. I mean hell AX probably runs year to year on what they get with not much wiggle room money wise and they charge everyone to get in.

[Jr.]

Originally Posted by Blue6

Naming buildings after someone is still not the same as having a say in how the college runs things.

As for your example about the sports team, source please? It doesn't sound like you're too sure about the details, so I'm questioning whether or not this is a fact. You need to support your claims.

here you go http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...n=ncaaf-312136

[ElCapitan]

I haven't dodged anything. Every single question you asked, I answered. That ignores the argument that you haven't asked a single question in this entire thread, since you have yet to use a question mark.

I'll tell you what: You answer all the questions you've been ignoring until now, and I'll re-answer any of the questions you care to repeat. As a bonus, I won't report you for trolling. This is getting absurd. You say this is all about you wanting to know how AM² is sustainable, but I answered that two pages ago, in my first reply to you.

[Blue6]

Originally Posted by Jr.

here you go http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...n=ncaaf-312136

That article doesn't support your argument. The donor merely made a threat. Nothing is mentioned about whether or not his threats actually affected the decisions about the team.

Aside from your poor grammar and punctuation and poor arguments, why do you keep accusing people of doing things like changing the subject or dodging questions? It's one thing to argue and try to reason with someone I disagree with, but it's pretty much impossible to reason with you.

[LelouchYamazaki]

It's normal for Sponsors to want the best for them, but thats when you have one main sponsor. The one you linked to shows a completely different reason for this especially since the schools team is mainly supported by the sponsor for a team sport.

AM2 had already discussed its plans and goals to the sponsors which is why they had agreed, and they are gaining something from it themselves, so while they can talk and make suggestions doesn't mean they run the con.

[ElCapitan]

After checking with him, I'm reposting part of this discussion Jr and I continued via PM.

Originally Posted by Jr.

My issues are in the fact that i don't believe you can really sustain a con the way your doing it I mean think about it why haven't any other cons done this there must be a reason. I mean you can run projections all you want but in the end it comes down to the reality that Am2 will most likely be spending a lot more money then it will be bringing in and will either have to change to charge everyone or become more dependent on sponsors for money. See you guys are mistaking my postings as trolling but they are more about you should really seriously be prepared and let people know the free option might not always be there.

...

Originally Posted by ElCapitan

Why are you so convinced that this business model can't suceed? Do you have much experience in running conventions? From several of the things you said in the thread, I get the impression that you don't.

We've got more of the upper management from 2009 AX than there is left at AX today. Between all of us, there's over a century of convention experience sitting down and planning this out. Do you honestly believe we'd all be here if we didn't think it was viable?

I'm not trying to pull some juvenile epeen BS here, just making that point that many many very experienced people are working to make this happen. What secret knowledge makes you so sure that the idea is impossible to achieve, when all these other people who know the business obviously disagree?

Originally Posted by Jr.

See nothing is impossible but in business you can get the outcome you want on paper but if it's going to happen that way is another story. What i do have experience in is how people are even you yourself might understand this, why pay when you can get most of the same stuff your con offers for free and I am sure you know the average person that goes to anime cons see free or pay with not much difference between the two options 90% of them are going to choose free because they would rather save that money for food and or buying stuff from the dealers hall.

The thing you have have to keep in mind here is this isn't a case of "not much difference". We've packed in a lot of value there. As people have pointed out before, you can buy one, attend all three days at con and enjoy the perks there, then go to Disneyland on Monday. The money you save on admission to Disney is already more than the cost of the passport itself. Have you looked at the benefits page? It's a pretty long list.

Also, you mentioned saving money for food/exhibits... The passport gives you discounts on food at a bunch of restaurants and with some exhibitors. If you get the three day passport, you also some Summer Festival tokens. To my understanding, you can exchange those for food as well (not positive about that last bit though, still don't have all the details).

[LelouchYamazaki]

it just someone who believes they know the business scenario without all the information, with the right leadership skills and ideas its possible and we will see at the end of AM2, the ability to choose the passport or not and it wont affect any of the con is a plus and from what I see is Jr saying people will go for the saved money which will go into other things in the con or outside, AM2 is doing something for the city of anaheim and local shops as well so hmm sounds like more reason for anaheim to like am2 as well.

[Phanari]

I'm in agreement with LelouchYamazaki here.

AM2 came out, I hear, for the soul purpose of TRYING to one up AX after the way that all the vendors, staff, and (I think) cosplayers were treated last year at AX in LA con center.

This is what I heard from a friend of mine who works as a vendor at cons. I'm not entirely sure if it's true, but the source is pretty sound....

Ans AM2, to me, seems like a good idea. They have a con with free badges in another state called Momocon(??) and I have friends online who go there and they wait every year to go, so I figured I'd do this year's AM2- and not just because I hate AX, but because AM2 is new and interesting to me. Never been to this one, and it's free, so I figured I'd give it a try.

[Access]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/anncast/2010-12-03

A while back there was a voice interview by Chase Wang posted on ANN where the origins of AM2 are explained in some detail.

[LelouchYamazaki]

There will be people who will just go, ill stick to whats been known better which is AX and that is normal, nothing wrong with that no matter what AX has done you want to see it get better.

AM2 itself is an unknown convention so people will be thinking because its smaller and nothing has really been announced as guests it wont be able to compare to AX. I have talked to some of my anime club members they only think about AX so im not surprised cause they don't do any research, so plenty of people will be that way.