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Unread 04-20-2012, 07:03 PM   #3961
Bisected8
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What's this? Video games aren't to blame for the Norway shooting? Who'd have thought it?
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Unread 04-20-2012, 07:31 PM   #3962
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Silly Bisected, it was gay abortions that did it.
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Unread 04-20-2012, 08:42 PM   #3963
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Of course! They probably vandalised Buckingham Palace as well.

Only joking, science did that.
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Unread 04-21-2012, 04:05 PM   #3964
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rubbish we should bring hanging back! hang murderers, rapists, kiddy-fiddlers, sickos etc!
Personally I think we should bring back public humiliation.

You steal? Then you should be made to wear a sandwich board stating what you did and stand outside that place of business like that one Wal-Mart did:
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Unread 04-21-2012, 04:22 PM   #3965
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Which is the exact same thing murderers will say about their own victims. Husbands killing their wives will say she deserved it for one reason or another, the media has even taken cases where the husband is turned into this sad lonely man with a tramp for a wife and people TAKE HIS SIDE.

Justifying the idea that and eye for an eye is a reasonable thought process is ignorant.

So you killed someone who killed someone..and therefore you deserve to be killed to because you killed someone. You're as much a killer as the person you put to death is. What do you say to that persons family? I am sorry ma'am but your child was killer so we killed him to prove killing people isn't okay? What do you say when evidence arises that proves this person was innocent the whole time and you've already put them 6 feet under? There's no justification other someones own petty sense of justice. Self justice does not trump true justice.
You know that's very decisive and keen of you to say that. I myself don't really know what to think about the death penalty in principle (even though Catholic teaching is against it for the reason that it cuts off their path to ask for forgiveness) because: 1) Rapists who are killers are repeat offenders (most sexual deviants are according to my readings) and 2) because of what you said: that you can't teach people who would kill that killing is wrong by killing. Those whose hearts are so hardened, they would probably not be scared of their own death anyway. Where's the solution? The remorse has to come from the person himself.

There could also be some other reasons for why the death penalty is preferred by Americans rather than allowing killers to serve a life-long sentence of induced penitence. I might be wrong, but I heard that that it's cheaper to kill them rather than keep them alive. I think it was the cost of trials, food and boarding that we didn't want to spend on "scum" like convicts.

I think I need to do a bit more reading on the death penalty. It's something I don't concentrate on too much.

In response to the prayer campaign of that planned parenthood, I was wondering if you guys knew that abortions by nature aren't safe and that 93% are done for social reasons; (unwanted, inconvenient), not medical necessity.
6% of abortions are done out of necessity or for health-related reasons. Also interesting to note that 1% of abortions are from babies concieved in rape and incest. Also, the first of it's kind done on women who concieved children in rape, Dr. Sandra Mahkorn's 1981 study, found 75 to 85 percent of rape victims chose life. I found this info at the Elliot Institute. Even though this is a prolife website, all the facts are from the Guttmacher Institute, a research organization which keeps meticulous stats on contraception and abortion world-wide.
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Last edited by Adorima : 04-21-2012 at 04:25 PM. Reason: grammar blues...D:
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Unread 04-21-2012, 05:01 PM   #3966
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I don't think the goal should be to try and instill guilt into a criminal, as the very nature of being a violent criminal is that this person has no sense of guilt or is able to put such feelings aside.


Fortunately for those women Planned Parenthood has offered them a place to help them heal and get support.
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Unread 04-21-2012, 05:27 PM   #3967
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Personally, I think a rehabilitative system's best. If you can take a criminal and turn them into an honest citizen then it's better than spending money punishing them every time they commit a crime (or keeping their current punishment funded).
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Unread 04-21-2012, 05:39 PM   #3968
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Personally, I think a rehabilitative system's best. If you can take a criminal and turn them into an honest citizen then it's better than spending money punishing them every time they commit a crime (or keeping their current punishment funded).
Do you guys have that in the UK? Or in Europe? I'd like to know if it works. :O

LithiumFlower: That's something else I disagree with. Abortions have an adverse psychological and spiritual effect on women. There's this whole organization of post-abortive women, silentnomore, who say that after the umpteenth abortion (repeat abortions account for 47% of abortions) that they never felt any better about themselves, and that they got in a rutt of promiscuity and repeatedly aborted their children. It was only after they acknowledged that abortion wasn't the answer, did they discover some measure of peace.

http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org/testimonies/
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Unread 04-21-2012, 05:53 PM   #3969
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Originally Posted by Adorima View Post
Do you guys have that in the UK? Or in Europe? I'd like to know if it works. :O

LithiumFlower: That's something else I disagree with. Abortions have an adverse psychological and spiritual effect on women. There's this whole organization of post-abortive women, silentnomore, who say that after the umpteenth abortion (repeat abortions account for 47% of abortions) that they never felt any better about themselves, and that they got in a rutt of promiscuity and repeatedly aborted their children. It was only after they acknowledged that abortion wasn't the answer, did they discover some measure of peace.

http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org/testimonies/
I'm not really sure exactly which way Britain's system leans. There's quite a few initiatives to teach prisoners a trade while they're inside so they don't re-offend, but when the EU ruled that prisoners should be allowed to vote quite a lot of people went absolutely ballistic.

Norway has a very firmly rehabilitative system. Basically the judge hands down a minimum sentence of up to 21 years, and after that's up they release the prisoner if they're satisfied that they can be trusted not to re-offend or extend their sentence if they're not (so the likes of Anders Behring Breivik can still be locked up indefinitely on the grounds he's still a risk). They apparently have a very good track record.
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Unread 04-21-2012, 06:08 PM   #3970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adorima View Post
Do you guys have that in the UK? Or in Europe? I'd like to know if it works. :O

LithiumFlower: That's something else I disagree with. Abortions have an adverse psychological and spiritual effect on women. There's this whole organization of post-abortive women, silentnomore, who say that after the umpteenth abortion (repeat abortions account for 47% of abortions) that they never felt any better about themselves, and that they got in a rutt of promiscuity and repeatedly aborted their children. It was only after they acknowledged that abortion wasn't the answer, did they discover some measure of peace.

http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org/testimonies/

I think it is fine if people choose to not have an abortion because it goes against their religious or spiritual beliefs, but it's not like anybody is being forced to have an abortion. We should all respect other's choices regarding their body and try to understand that they choose their actions because they know themselves and their circumstances better than anybody else does. I respect those who choose to not get abortions because I imagine that the idea of having a child is incredibly scary, especially if you are young (Personally I don't think I could do it at my age if I got pregnant).

The problem is that now some individuals, some of whom are men and as such not really involved in such a desision, have decided that it is the government's right to tell people what they can or cannot do with their bodies. How can we be a democracy if decide to write laws that that make personal choices for people?
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Unread 04-21-2012, 06:10 PM   #3971
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Originally Posted by Bisected8 View Post
Personally, I think a rehabilitative system's best. If you can take a criminal and turn them into an honest citizen then it's better than spending money punishing them every time they commit a crime (or keeping their current punishment funded).
A rehabilitative system would be just as expensive, if not more expensive then incarcerating the offenders. Although it may be the morally correct route to go, the tax payers should not have the burden of higher tax rates because you are imposing a system that may not even help criminals, and may just end up being a waste of money. I for one would not like my tax money spent on eventually allowing a potentially violent criminal back out in to the street just because he seems to have changed... Any sociopath can make it look like they have changed for the better in order to get what they want, in this case freedom.
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Unread 04-21-2012, 06:23 PM   #3972
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Whenever this pro-life shit is brought up I always think of that quote from Ronald Reagan: "Funny how people that are for abortion are alive today."

Know what I find funny? How the people that often make the most judgements about or for other people aren't God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuchikichan View Post
I think it is fine if people choose to not have an abortion because it goes against their religious or spiritual beliefs, but it's not like anybody is being forced to have an abortion. We should all respect other's choices regarding their body and try to understand that they choose their actions because they know themselves and their circumstances better than anybody else does. I respect those who choose to not get abortions because I imagine that the idea of having a child is incredibly scary, especially if you are young (Personally I don't think I could do it at my age if I got pregnant).

The problem is that now some individuals, some of whom are men and as such not really involved in such a desision, have decided that it is the government's right to tell people what they can or cannot do with their bodies. How can we be a democracy if decide to write laws that that make personal choices for people?
This. All of it.
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Unread 04-21-2012, 06:31 PM   #3973
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Do you guys have that in the UK? Or in Europe? I'd like to know if it works. :O

LithiumFlower: That's something else I disagree with. Abortions have an adverse psychological and spiritual effect on women.
I live in the United States.


This is your opinion on the matter. This is your own feelings on how it would affect YOU. You do not have a right to impose that on another woman, Your feelings, your choices, your life. Not your feelings, your choices, others lives. I will tell you right now that it would be in both of our best interests that this conversation does not continue as I find it's already gone past my tolerance level.
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Unread 04-21-2012, 06:34 PM   #3974
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When this thread started on the date of 03-09-2011, it was about planned parenthood and abortions.

More than a full year later, the debate rages on.

...it amazes me in some ways.
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Unread 04-21-2012, 06:36 PM   #3975
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In response to the prayer campaign of that planned parenthood, I was wondering if you guys knew that abortions by nature aren't safe and that 93% are done for social reasons; (unwanted, inconvenient), not medical necessity.
6% of abortions are done out of necessity or for health-related reasons. Also interesting to note that 1% of abortions are from babies concieved in rape and incest. Also, the first of it's kind done on women who concieved children in rape, Dr. Sandra Mahkorn's 1981 study, found 75 to 85 percent of rape victims chose life. I found this info at the Elliot Institute. Even though this is a prolife website, all the facts are from the Guttmacher Institute, a research organization which keeps meticulous stats on contraception and abortion world-wide.
Actually abortions are very safe and carry much fewer risks than pregnancy. The fact you're using a pro-life website to back up your claim hurts you. The pro-life movement is well known to distort facts and all out lie. Also I believe a woman has a right to have an abortion for any reason. Making exceptions for certain situations doesn't work. In countries where women are supposed to be allowed to have abortions for rape and health reason often don't get permission.

Also you're not mentioning how I brought up the prayer seemed to be for the safety of abortion providers. That hits a personal note with me as I actually knew Dr. George Tiller. A man who had his clinic bombed and two murder attempts the second being successful.

Also "Post-Abortion Syndrome" doesn't exist. It's not an accepted syndrome by any medical association. Just because there's some organization dedicated to it, doesn't make it real. There are plenty of organizations dedicated to "curing" homosexuality despite being highly condemned by the American Psychological Association. Again, you're hitting a nerve with me as my mom had two abortions. She wasn't promiscuous, both of those pregnancies were with my father. She doesn't regret these abortions at all, she knows she made the right decision.
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