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Unread 02-06-2015, 08:27 AM   #1
AmberLehcar
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Silk Weight and Weave for Kimono

I'm wanting to make a furisode and want it to be as accurate as possible. I'm looking into habotai 8mm for lining and crepe de chine in either 16mm or 30mm for the main fabric of the furisode. Price-wise, I'd like to be able to get away with the 16mm if possible, but I was hoping someone could help me with a recommendation on the weight. Also, I'm fairly certain others have recommended crepe de chine for formal kimonos, but I wanted to double check on that. I've been looking here for silk weights/weaves/prices: http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1637049-AA.shtml

Another concern of mine is that while most of the furisode is going to be white, the edges of the sleeves will have flames. I've seen other cosplayers either not line their furisode or keep the sleeve lining white for this cosplay, but I was thinking of making part of the lining a red/red-orange. But with a hanjuban underneath, would it kind of defeat the purpose of the splash of color?

And a review of the 30mm crepe de chine said that it doesn't take dye nearly as well, so I'm concerned about that too, especially since the flames will cover almost half of the sleeves. I'd rather not use fabric paint, instead I planned on using a water-based resistant and Setasilk (http://www.dharmatrading.com/paints/...lk-paint.html). So while the 30mm would be more opaque, I'm afraid of how the silk painting will go.

Any thoughts, recommendations, anything would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!
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Unread 02-06-2015, 11:00 AM   #2
Evil Bishounen
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Please post a reference picture of the costume.

General kimono/fabric advice from personal experience, non-relevant to your specific costume:

30mm is much more appropriate for a kimono. I use 20mm silk broadcloth for making shirts, and it's much too lightweight for something like a furisode or formal kimono. 20mm has about the same thickness as a yukata fabric.

The water-based resist technique does NOT work well on thicker fabrics! For a resist to work properly, it has to soak through the entire thickness of the fabric. This is easy on thin fabrics, but thicker fabrics take longer AND require more resist to penetrate all the way through. This also means that the resist will spread out on top and create a thicker line.

Also, it's VERY difficult to apply that stuff smoothly or in a straight line. Typically, you put it in an applicator bottle with a tiny tip (it looks like the tip of a mechanical pencil) and you squeeze it out in your design. In practice, that bottle was very difficult to squeeze, I couldn't get it in a straight line or even a smooth curve, and I couldn't even get the crap to come out of the bottle continuously. I constantly had to go back to fix broken lines. And combined with the whole needing to apply more when you notice that the resist just isn't penetrating all the way through? You're going to have some REALLY ugly lines. But it's necessary, because if at any point the lines are broken or not penetrated all the way through, the dye or paint you use WILL break through the line and bleed out. And then you have to wash the resist out, which takes fucking forever because so much had to be caked on.

My hands hurt like hell from the stupid applicator bottle both times I tried this and I hated the end result. One time, it came out so ugly from unexpected broken lines (which I totally thought were solid and fully penetrated) that I had to go back and paint flowers with an opaque fabric paint over all the spots that got messed up. It was a bitch on 20mm silk; 30mm would be even worse.
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Unread 02-06-2015, 01:23 PM   #3
AmberLehcar
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I'm so sorry, I completely forgot to add a reference.
http://www.zerochan.net/292295#full
http://www.zerochan.net/16152#full

The manga version has them wearing some sort of juban, so I planned on making one. Would silk be best for this as well? I've read some conflicting things on that.

30mm it is, but do you have a suggestion for the flames if resist is not the way to go? I'm still wary of paint. The best I've done with paint has been little details in acrylic with wet- and dry-brush techniques, and obviously that is not going to work in this case.

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/20...gi-d5a5bnn.jpg
This cosplay is gorgeous, but the inner part of the sleeves bothers me a bit. Like I said before, I'd like to line the sleeves and probably the bottom half of the body in a red color like the flames. But with the juban underneath in white, would it just be a useless step?

Thank you so much for your help so far! And I'm really sorry for all the trouble the application/dyeing caused. I hope it turned out nicely nonetheless!
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Unread 02-07-2015, 06:56 AM   #4
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So, you are willing to tackle all those layers and an accurate formal kimono, why not applique the flames?

You can buy the lightest, very sheer silk, do several different dye baths to give yourself varying shades from red to yellow, then layer them onto the kimono. Really sheer colored fabrics, when layered, work much like colored glass, the colors will penetrate each other and result in an even greater color palate.
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Unread 02-07-2015, 02:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
The manga version has them wearing some sort of juban, so I planned on making one. Would silk be best for this as well? I've read some conflicting things on that.
I don't see a juban in the manga image you linked, but if it's there in other frames, I'll take your word for it.

I usually make juban out of 45" cotton sateen, which is lighter in weight than the 60" width sateen. You can get 45" sateen in the quilting section at Joann. (Don't confuse it with the stretch sateen kept with the fashion fabrics, which is heavier and NOT 100% cotton.) I also sometimes use 100% silk broadcloth (the Fuji broadcloth from http://silkconnection.com ) for a juban or lining. It really depends on the costume.

Your project has some big drapey sleeves, and if you plan on having long or large sleeves on your juban too, I think silk would be much more appropriate. Cotton does not drape the same way as silk and will look bulkier.


Quote:
30mm it is, but do you have a suggestion for the flames if resist is not the way to go? I'm still wary of paint.
There are flow-stoppers out there you can use instead. They're thinner than resists. You apply them with a brush and it acts as a fabric sizing that inhibits the free spreading of dye or flowable paint. A friend made a kimono with sleeve flames using that method and it came out looking really good. Dharma has a couple variations on these, one is called No Flow and the other is Stop Flow.

There are different paints out there. Some are meant for fabrics, some not. There are also different grades of fabric paint. Dye-Na-Flow is a flowable paint with the consistency of water, not a thicker-bodied acrylic paint (basically, it's a paint that's applied like a brush-on dye). Real dye will have greater holding and lasting power on your fabric and give you better color, but the disadvantage is that you have to fix the dye by steaming or using a fixative chemical (but this method can make colors run). Dye-na-Flow, being a paint, does not require this - you just have to heat-set it with an iron.

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Like I said before, I'd like to line the sleeves and probably the bottom half of the body in a red color like the flames. But with the juban underneath in white, would it just be a useless step?
No, I'd line it. With huge sleeves like that, you need to line it so that the underside doesn't show like in that photo. Having a big-sleeved juban isn't enough because the juban sleeves won't stay in exactly the same place all the time.

I personally would line it in white, not red. The thing is, because your outer layer is white, there's a transparency problem to worry about. If you put a deep blood red under it, that red will show through the white layer. It will make the kimono look pink and all your seam allowances will stick out like a sore thumb. To prevent this, you'd have to add a white interlining between the outer crepe material and your red lining, adding cost, work, and physical weight to this project. And since you're wearing a juban anyway, you're hiding the lining where it would otherwise be seen.

Also, it's not accurate because if you look at that color image, Ashura's right arm is raised and revealing that the inside of the sleeve is white.


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And I'm really sorry for all the trouble the application/dyeing caused. I hope it turned out nicely nonetheless!
It turned out...okay. The first time was actually for a stage backdrop, I made these sumi-e style banners illustrated to look like blossoming trees (which is why I covered the mistakes with flowers). They looked great on stage, but I think they're ugly up close. Mostly because of the flowers, they look bizarre.

The second time was for a kimono lining. I never used the panel I painted because the lines were just too thick from the resist spreading. And despite my care, the paint still broke through the resist in a few places and bled out. (This was on 20mm silk.)
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Unread 08-31-2015, 05:36 PM   #6
AmberLehcar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penlowe View Post
So, you are willing to tackle all those layers and an accurate formal kimono, why not applique the flames?

You can buy the lightest, very sheer silk, do several different dye baths to give yourself varying shades from red to yellow, then layer them onto the kimono. Really sheer colored fabrics, when layered, work much like colored glass, the colors will penetrate each other and result in an even greater color palate.
I don't like the idea of the applique because the best way would require a satin stitch which isn't really the look I'm going for. Thank you for the suggestion though!

Quote:
There are flow-stoppers out there you can use instead. They're thinner than resists. You apply them with a brush and it acts as a fabric sizing that inhibits the free spreading of dye or flowable paint. A friend made a kimono with sleeve flames using that method and it came out looking really good. Dharma has a couple variations on these, one is called No Flow and the other is Stop Flow.

There are different paints out there. Some are meant for fabrics, some not. There are also different grades of fabric paint. Dye-Na-Flow is a flowable paint with the consistency of water, not a thicker-bodied acrylic paint (basically, it's a paint that's applied like a brush-on dye). Real dye will have greater holding and lasting power on your fabric and give you better color, but the disadvantage is that you have to fix the dye by steaming or using a fixative chemical (but this method can make colors run). Dye-na-Flow, being a paint, does not require this - you just have to heat-set it with an iron.
Would you recommend this technique over screen printing? I've used screen printing for little bubble designs, but I'm nervous that maybe it won't turn out so well with the flames?

And I planned on fully lining the furisode, I was just curious if I should dye the facings or not. I have changed my mind on a few things having made another traditional kimono while researching for this one, and decided I might not use a juban since the colored image doesn't have them wearing one. But you might still be right, the facings might just be better off white.
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Unread 09-01-2015, 08:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberLehcar View Post
Would you recommend this technique over screen printing? I've used screen printing for little bubble designs, but I'm nervous that maybe it won't turn out so well with the flames?
I've never done screen-printing before, but doesn't that add stiffness to fabric? If so, that would affect the drape and be thicker to sew through. Also, keep in mind that you are going to have a LOT of long edges to cover. When you're dealing with frames, it could be a pain to line things up just right, not to mention the difficulty of having to frame off a fabric edge. This would make me more inclined to just go with hand-painting.


Quote:
And I planned on fully lining the furisode, I was just curious if I should dye the facings or not.
I wouldn't. Just go with a matching white.
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Unread 09-02-2015, 07:49 AM   #8
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Quote:
I don't like the idea of the applique because the best way would require a satin stitch which isn't really the look I'm going for. Thank you for the suggestion though!
no, the BEST applique is by hand using a technique called needle turning, it's completely invisible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCvk2elwxuA But I totally understand if that falls outside your comfort zone or available time. I have part of a vintage Chinese shirt that is appliqued, it is exactly this technique.
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