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Unread 07-07-2011, 08:05 PM   #31
KUJO3423
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Originally Posted by Hakaider View Post
The only negative thing about this event was the people from the "Moose" Convention. They were sharing the AM2 event at the Anaheim Convention Center, and some of them were rude, obnoxious and pointed & snickered at all the cosplayers. (After awhile, it started to get really annoying.)

There was also a couple of bearded men with baseball hats from the "Moose" convention who were wearing Confederate flag T-shirts, and hurled 4 letter words at some of the the cosplayers. One of them used a derogatory word that questioned the sexuality of the cosplayers.

I really hope AM2 doesn't share with the "Moose" con the next time. I also do hope that AM2 doesn't share the same July 4th weekend date as AX the next time as well.
Moose convention? My friend mentioned something about this but I thought they were joking. What the heck is a moose convention?
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Unread 07-07-2011, 08:37 PM   #32
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Moose convention? My friend mentioned something about this but I thought they were joking. What the heck is a moose convention?

The Loyal Order of Moose is a private fraternal organization that's like the Freemasons, the Shriners, and the Elks lodge. They have a secret oath just like the Masons.

Their past history isn't that great though. When it first started out back in the 1888, only whites or Caucasians were allowed in the private club, and women weren't allowed to join until the 20th century. Members were also not not allowed to marry non-whites, and this practice continued well into the late 20th century. (This is no longer the case today, but it wasn't that long ago that non-whites were banned from membership.) Women however, still have to join a separate Moose fraternal order that's called "Women of the Moose", and they can not join the official Loyal Order of The Moose.

And no, it's not a Christian organization by any means. (Christian churches have also some disputes with them in the past with regards to some of the Moose's secret doctrines & pledges.)

The lodges have very strict requirements for private membership, and they used to check on your family background and your ancestors.


Here's their website:

http://www.ca-nvmoose.org/html/coming_events.html


http://www.ca-nvmoose.org/html/cnma.html



Moose history:

http://www.mooseintl.org/public/Area/History.asp


There was also an incident as late as 1994 where a African American was barred from membership into a Moose Lodge:

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...dge-membership

Last edited by Hakaider : 07-07-2011 at 09:04 PM.
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Unread 07-07-2011, 08:53 PM   #33
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WOW...you learn something new every day. Thank you Hakaider for the history lesson. To be honest the first thing that came to my mind was furries.
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Unread 07-07-2011, 09:19 PM   #34
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No problem, KUJO3423.

And no, you couldn't pay me enough to join the "The Loyal Order Of The Moose".

I would rather join Natsha & Boris!

(Little joke there from the "Rocky & Bullwinkle" cartoon.)
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Unread 07-08-2011, 01:31 AM   #35
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Pretty sure the moose lodge convention has been held in a different spot every year, so I wouldn't count on it being there next year. Interestingly enough I had a opposite reaction from people I ran into. Guess there's an asshole in every group.
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Unread 07-08-2011, 02:53 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Hazel Chaz View Post
They could easily fit into the Anaheim Marriott or the Anaheim Hilton.
If they had been available at the time.

Also, do either have a Ballroom with a 1.5k capacity?
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Unread 07-08-2011, 03:14 AM   #37
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I met a few of the Moose people and they were very nice and polite even bought me a few drinks with some friends.

some asked what was going on and I know some were like wait what are they doing but overall I just kept walking cept for the kind ones, but was interesting apparently they were the loudest in all the hilton even compared to some of the room parties.

well am2 2k11 is over time to see what 2k12 has in store
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Unread 07-08-2011, 03:54 AM   #38
Hazel Chaz
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Originally Posted by Hakaider View Post
Unfortunately, that's probably not likely. It would be too small to fit everyone.
You may not have seen just how much function space they have. Especially after the Marriott's expansion (which happened after the last Anime Expo was held there).

I don't believe that AM2's "8000+ unique attendees" were all on-site at the same time. But even if they were, it would be possible to make it work at the Marriott, or at the Marriott plus the Hilton if you're really concerned about how much space they have.

Both hotels have their function space specs online. You could compare them to what was used at the ACC if you like. Recall that AM2 used half of a great hall, and a handful of the rooms upstairs.

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If they had been available at the time.
I was theorizing what they might use next year.

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Also, do either have a Ballroom with a 1.5k capacity?
There are four ballrooms with double that capacity, actually.

http://www.marriott.com/hotels/event...or-plans/LAXAH
The Marquis Ballroom at the Marriott has a theater seating capacity of 3,231. The Platinum Ballroom holds 3,200.

http://www.hilton.com/en/hi/hotels/m...tyhocn=SNAAHHH
At the Hilton, the Pacific Ballroom and the California Pavilion EACH can hold theater seating for 3,000.

(We looked into these hotels as alternatives for future expansion of Anime Los Angeles. There's no question that they can hold us, or AM2. At the time we were looking for our 2011-2012 contract, the LAX Marriott still gave us the best deal.)
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Last edited by Hazel Chaz : 07-08-2011 at 04:09 AM.
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Unread 07-08-2011, 04:19 AM   #39
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You may not have seen just how much function space they have. Especially after the Marriott's expansion (which happened after the last Anime Expo was held there).

I don't believe that AM2's "8000+ unique attendees" were all on-site at the same time. But even if they were, it would be possible to make it work at the Marriott, or at the Marriott plus the Hilton if you're really concerned about how much space they have.
Actually, I have seen the Marriott expansion. I was just there recently. And I have stayed at the Marriott several times after AX had left Anaheim.

And I'm afraid that I still have to disagree with you. The Marriott alone simply won't fit. Or the Hilton. AX could barely fit the Hilton back in 1999 when they hit 6,400 attendees. (Were you there at AX in 1999? It was bumper to bumper people back in 1999, and there's no way that the Hilton's main ballroom could have fit the crowds at the "Scandal" concert.) The Marriott or the Hilton may work out well for the future expansion of Anime LA, but not AM2. Also, why should AM2 spread all of their events out to two different hotels when they can host it all at the ACC?

Also, if you are going to go by that style of counting, I don't think Anime LA had 3000 plus attendees that "were all on-site at the same time" either.

What may work for AnimeLA, may not work for AM2. Again, I have to emphasize that what will work for your con, Chaz, will not necessarily work for another con.

Last edited by Hakaider : 07-08-2011 at 04:45 AM.
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Unread 07-08-2011, 12:01 PM   #40
Hazel Chaz
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Originally Posted by Hakaider View Post
Also, if you are going to go by that style of counting, I don't think Anime LA had 3000 plus attendees that "were all on-site at the same time" either.
By Saturday at Anime Los Angeles 7, there were 3,199 people who had picked up a full-weekend or Saturday-only badge. I can tell you this number because we track when badges were picked up as well as what kind of badge they were. So I've removed no-shows, Sundays, Friday-only, and other not-eligible-on-Saturday people.

And judging by our room-nights, I'm reasonably certain that we had most of the people who had picked up their badges the day before.

Anyhow, the Anime Los Angeles 7 crowds on Saturday afternoon were much thicker than the Saturday crowds at AM^2. Therefore, I conclude that AM^2 must have had a lot of people who didn't stick around for the day, especially if they had twice as many unique attendees.

And to answer the question of "why use hotels" the usual reason is that there's better negotiation opportunities. When another group I'm involved with signed the contract for the 2006 World Science Fiction Convention's use of the Convention Center, it cost $139,000 to rent a great hall and the ballrooms upstairs. In comparison, the space available at the Hilton & Marriott that was used didn't cost us as much, even though there was a lot more rooms and a lot more flexibility -- the fact that we could guarantee to fill their hotels gave us a break.

(It may come as a surprise to learn that I know more about convention-running and space usage than comes into play at Anime Los Angeles. But based on what I saw at AM^2, I believe they would have been a better fit in the bignormous ballroom space that the Marriott has.)

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Originally Posted by Hakaider View Post
And I'm afraid that I still have to disagree with you. The Marriott alone simply won't fit. Or the Hilton. AX could barely fit the Hilton back in 1999 when they hit 6,400 attendees.
But AM^2 is nothing like Anime Expo. The crowds didn't stick around. People came to Anime Expo and spent the day. Do you have any figures for the traffic flow at AM^2? It would have been interesting to have a time-lapse camera on the hall to see how the ebb and flow worked.

In any event, you don't think the Marriott or the Hilton would work for AM^2. I think they would. But I'm not in charge of negotiating their contract for next year, so my opinion doesn't have much influence here.
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Last edited by Hazel Chaz : 07-08-2011 at 12:07 PM.
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Unread 07-08-2011, 12:22 PM   #41
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By Saturday at Anime Los Angeles 7, there were 3,199 people who had picked up a full-weekend or Saturday-only badge. I can tell you this number because we track when badges were picked up as well as what kind of badge they were. So I've removed no-shows, Sundays, Friday-only, and other not-eligible-on-Saturday people.
So did you have 3,199 attendees all together at once at the very same time in the very same building on the very same hour?

Quote:
(It may come as a surprise to learn that I know more about convention-running and space usage than comes into play at Anime Los Angeles.
That actually shouldn't be a surprise. You ARE the con chair of AnimeLA. It's your job to know these things. If you didn't know about these things, then I would start to worry about AnimeLA. (But from all indications, you have been running it well.)

Quote:
But AM^2 is nothing like Anime Expo. The crowds didn't stick around. People came to Anime Expo and spent the day. Do you have any figures for the traffic flow at AM^2? It would have been interesting to have a time-lapse camera on the hall to see how the ebb and flow worked.
No, it isn't Anime Expo, but it's run by former AX staffers. I think that it will grow rapidly within the next few years if it is done well & done right. They could easily hit over 15,000 within 3 years, and it may very well become one of the fastest growing anime cons in the West Coast. (If it is done right.)

As for the crowds...all I can say is this:

http://www.cosplay.com/attachment.ph...9&d=1310073544

(And I think that we should put a circle around your image, because I still can't find you in there. It's like finding "Waldo" in there.)

And this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/am2conv...in/photostream


It's not very likely that those crowds would fit in the Hilton or the Marriott alone.


Quote:
But I'm not in charge of negotiating their contract for next year, so my opinion doesn't have much influence here.
As I said before, (And you do run a fine con) AM2 isn't the same as Anime LA here. Chase isn't you and you are not Chase. I'm sure that both you and Chase are going to have a different outlook & perspective on certain things. Let Chase decide what would be best for AM2, and you can decide what would be best for yours.

Last edited by Hakaider : 07-08-2011 at 01:01 PM.
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Unread 07-08-2011, 12:38 PM   #42
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In my estimation, a large hotel like the ones Chaz mentioned would have been fine for this year. But that's this year, where it was concurrent with AX. If in future years the goal is to hold it non-concurrently with AX, and continue to bring the big musical guests of honor like they did this year, it would need a place like the ACC. That's just my thoughts though, this year should be considered a special case, not as a benchmark for future size.

Personally I love the hotel-based cons but I can only imagine what a hotel venue would be like when 6000, 7000, 8000+ on site at the same time. The largest hotel I know of is the Town and Country (San Diego), I guess you'd call it a Mega-hotel -- does LA have anything comparable? And even that, I think if you had both the main convention section and the other section, you might be able to comfortably fit a convention in the 5000 person range, 6000-8000 range if you really pushed it. Not a whole lot more.

Last edited by Access : 07-08-2011 at 01:15 PM.
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Unread 07-08-2011, 12:53 PM   #43
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http://www.cosplay.com/attachment.ph...9&d=1310073544

(And I think that we should put a circle around your image, because I still can't find you in there. It's like finding "Waldo" in there.)
I'm not in the crowd that was blocking the entrance. I'm not facing the camera, I'm facing to the right, over near the booths. And I'm wearing a plain brown shirt, not an aloha shirt. (It was a very simple costume, but you can't tell from that angle.)

Find the guy in the orange shirt with the white markings, and go straight up.
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Last edited by Hazel Chaz : 07-08-2011 at 12:57 PM.
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Unread 07-08-2011, 01:01 PM   #44
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This possibility was actually discussed in specific. We cannot fit in either the Marriott or Hilton alone. We might be able to fit if we use both concurrently, but as mentioned prior, there are negatives inherent to splitting con across two sites.

Consider this: Half of Hall B is about 70k sq ft, and Main Events was about 23k. That adds up to almost exactly the combined space of all major ballrooms in both hotels combined. So let's say we get exactly the same amount of space for 2012 as we had for this year. Doing so largely curtails our growth, most notably for the Exhibits area.

This was a trial year for us in many respects. Many exhibitors (and attendees) were understandably hesitant to give us a shot. I think it's safe to say that we've proven ourselves now, and we are most likely shifting to another weekend. Between those two factors, it's reasonable to expect at least moderate growth, and we need to plan accordingly.

At any rate, one of the main reasons we haven't announced anything for 2012 yet is that we are still looking at all the factors and making our decision. There's obviously a lot to take into consideration.
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Unread 07-08-2011, 01:54 PM   #45
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I wanted to attend AM2 but AX is the con who had Miku and my friend there to see Miku so... Also, it was my friend's first convention so I wanted to take her to the biggest convention.

I wanted to see Kanon Wakeshima though!

So, yes, please make AM2 on another weekend.


Or just get a hello!project group like šC-ute or Buono and I'll ditch AX for you guys.
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