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Unread 04-26-2012, 02:55 PM   #661
Lithium Flower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bisected8 View Post
I personally just keep my mouth shut, imply my beliefs without outright stating them if I have to and reherse the "religion is like a penis" speech for emergencies. Then again, if someone were to say "I hate Atheists they're such ass holes" in Britain, they'd probably get funny looks anyway.
That's the thing, when everyone else is stating "I am x" and "I am y", I don't feel like I should keep my mouth shut :/

The situations are where others are openly stating their religions and having polite and fun chats, so I don't feel like I need to hide myself.
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Originally Posted by fullbleed View Post
Just say "Not all Atheists are like that, you shouldn't generalise a whole group of people."

But I understand its hard to do.
I have said in the past that they're taking one experience with a radical and judging everyone on it, and that they wouldn't look at the Westboro Baptist Church and judge the entirety of Christianity from that radical group. But it seems like I get blown off instead.

If everyone else is discussing religion openly, and X and Y are talking about their different opinions and beliefs that may involve clashing with the other persons religion(For example, a Jewish friend telling the Christian friend why they don't believe Jesus should be considered a religious deity but Christian friend didn't get offended and they didn't fight, they just both discussed by they felt the way they did regardless of them having very opposing views) they can still have a polite and charming discussion. When I say anything, I get told my group is a bunch of ass holes and everyone hates them. It's like it's okay to have a completely different religion that considers the other persons religion to be useless and disregards their deity entirely, but having a lack of belief at all is crossing the line.
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Unread 04-27-2012, 10:54 AM   #662
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Usually telling people that I was born Buddhist and am currently eclectic agnostic shuts them up. You can't argue with Buddha and agnostic just means I don't believe in your organized religion, but God is a cool dude.

It took a while for me to go from catholic school to Buddhist temple to atheist in order to spite the both of them to agnostic. Now a days, I don't give two shits about those religious fanatics. In fact, I get amused when they try to justify their hate and cover up the loopholes in their preaching. Especially the Westboro church guys. Oh they're hilarious.
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Unread 04-28-2012, 01:20 AM   #663
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"Study: Analytic thinking can decrease religious belief even in devout beleivers"

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/0...ief/?hpt=hp_c2

“Religious belief is intuitive - and analytical thinking can undermine intuitive thinking,” said Ara Norenzayan, co-author of the study. “So when people are encouraged to think analytically, it can block intuitive thinking.”

I would also add that doses of analytical thinking should be applied to all areas of life. (i.e. political, cultural, self actualization). Without critical thinking skills, all a person is doing is letting others tell them how to think and the world is full of people who would be delighted to tell you not only how to think, but what to think.
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Unread 04-28-2012, 07:31 AM   #664
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Sometimes I wish I could be religious. But the whole questioning the base beliefs of Christianity from the age of 8 and the complete unwillingness to listen in church, ever at all, has stuck with me my whole life. So I'm better off being agnostic.
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Unread 04-28-2012, 11:32 PM   #665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithium Flower View Post
I am kind of looking for a little of advice with a situation that comes up sadly far too often.

When discussions come up in which religion and the religion of those involved is the central theme and it's appropriate for me to mention I am Atheist I often get the reaction;

"I hate Atheists they're such ass holes"
(or variations of this accusation)
Said in a laughing manner from people who are my friends. They do not seem to be directing it at me, but making a blanket statement over all. Caught off guard and naturally rather offended I find myself stumbling along and actually laughing with them and agreeing, usually saying something like "Yeah I don't like other Atheists", when this is not something I actually mean or agree with. It's something I find myself blurting out when feeling put on the spot by such negativity.

When Boyfriend tell's me he would get baptized to please his sick grandmother I don't say "I hate Christians they're such ass holes" nor do I believe it in the first place.

I am wondering how I can voice my opinion on this statement without further cementing the image of the 'radical Atheist' to them. I've tried saying "That's an interesting assumption" but this is usually brushed off and the person may either continue on their little rant, or change the topic without responding to me at all.

What exactly do you say to something like that?
From a "radical Christian" perspective (or so I've been told) or just a me perspective, I think that you should ask your friends up front why they hate Atheists so much. Is it something personal or just a fad among their circle to say? Straight up say that they're doing the same thing they're accusing Athiests of doing (being assholes) and how incorrect it is to apply to you and all. In my observations among my friends if the issue is addressed from a personal vantage point that people have more success in relating to another person, not just reducing them to a stereotype.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithium Flower View Post
That's the thing, when everyone else is stating "I am x" and "I am y", I don't feel like I should keep my mouth shut :/

The situations are where others are openly stating their religions and having polite and fun chats, so I don't feel like I need to hide myself.


I have said in the past that they're taking one experience with a radical and judging everyone on it, and that they wouldn't look at the Westboro Baptist Church and judge the entirety of Christianity from that radical group. But it seems like I get blown off instead.

If everyone else is discussing religion openly, and X and Y are talking about their different opinions and beliefs that may involve clashing with the other persons religion(For example, a Jewish friend telling the Christian friend why they don't believe Jesus should be considered a religious deity but Christian friend didn't get offended and they didn't fight, they just both discussed by they felt the way they did regardless of them having very opposing views) they can still have a polite and charming discussion. When I say anything, I get told my group is a bunch of ass holes and everyone hates them. It's like it's okay to have a completely different religion that considers the other persons religion to be useless and disregards their deity entirely, but having a lack of belief at all is crossing the line.
With the Jewish/Christian example particularly, I think we share so many fundamental beliefs and a common religious history and ancestry (Christians and Jews both worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, Catholics are still very Jewish in their rites during mass, Jesus is Jewish) that it's easy to empathize with the other side.

When it's Atheists vs. Theists, people assume that because your lack of belief in a loving, sovereign creator that you must reject all good things they get out of it, that go along with it, ie. love your neighbor as you love yourself.

It sounds like you really need to be more assertive than usual towards them. Bring up a very specific issue where an atheist has excelled by their personal vision, work/ethic.
Focus on that aspect instead of how Atheists are better than believers because of blah. A good example I can think of is Wafa Sultan who used to suffer under the thumb of men in the Muslim world of Syria all because she was a woman, and how she could not take the abuse any longer and spoke out as the voice of women, condemning the misogynistic rule of Islam and how she respects democracies for allowing their freedom of religion (eh, eh focus on that) and that "You can believe in rocks, just don't throw them at me." Hooooooo snap!
Share what you do have in common with them. Not even that maybe, but what you truely respect about them.

I'm assuming since you're all friends that you do share many values in common in reality. Friends are the people you choose, so why have you chosen them and why have they chosen you?
Those are the most important things, rather than what I'm assuming is an apparently off-handed non-committal statement about a vague impression they have about a group of people.

Also, don't forget to say something about mutual respect. There are many things that are crossing the line for different people, but you gotta set up your boundaries, because all of you may not recognize where they lie for one another.

Kind of call them out of the hypocrisy of hating someone when as a Christian you're supposed to "Be all things to all people" ~ 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 and they should "speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!" ~ James 2:12-13.

If they think that's cheesy, inapplicable to them and out of the question, they're the ones who don't know Christ/a loving God.
If they blow you off after a few times of this, you might want to consider finding different people to talk to about this. Friendship and love have a co-requisite of respect and care for the well-being of another person, no matter if their lives prove your point or not. If they're with you just 'cause you're fun and nothing else...they might not be your real friends.

Maybe that won't be the case though. I think that you just need to make it obvious how you feel about them talking about essentially you when they say,"I hate Atheists."
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Unread 04-30-2012, 09:35 PM   #666
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Personally, I'm not religious, but I have a very Christian grandmother. Why is this a problem? I'm transgendered, and I have a feeling she'd probably try to beat some "sense" into me with a bible. Do any of you religious and non religious folks have any suggestions for dealing with this situation? By the way, I'm only 16, so I can't just, you know, never see her again. I'm not an adult.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 09:42 PM   #667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nanakiff7 View Post
Personally, I'm not religious, but I have a very Christian grandmother. Why is this a problem? I'm transgendered, and I have a feeling she'd probably try to beat some "sense" into me with a bible. Do any of you religious and non religious folks have any suggestions for dealing with this situation? By the way, I'm only 16, so I can't just, you know, never see her again. I'm not an adult.
I'm not sure I'm qualified to give advice in these situations, so I'll have to answer your question with another; what do the rest of your relatives think?
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Unread 05-01-2012, 07:29 AM   #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bisected8 View Post
I'm not sure I'm qualified to give advice in these situations, so I'll have to answer your question with another; what do the rest of your relatives think?
Right now only my mother knows, but she is probably one of the most accepting and supportive person I know.
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Unread 05-01-2012, 07:56 AM   #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nanakiff7 View Post
Right now only my mother knows, but she is probably one of the most accepting and supportive person I know.
Well, if you're worried about her reaction then there's no need to bring it up. If she does find out and reacts badly, then I presume it's fair to assume that your mother will step in, at least?
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Unread 05-01-2012, 08:05 AM   #670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nanakiff7 View Post
Personally, I'm not religious, but I have a very Christian grandmother. Why is this a problem? I'm transgendered, and I have a feeling she'd probably try to beat some "sense" into me with a bible. Do any of you religious and non religious folks have any suggestions for dealing with this situation? By the way, I'm only 16, so I can't just, you know, never see her again. I'm not an adult.
most 'a my family is pretty religious and although I see myself as christian I also see myself as being more liberal about things and what not. The portion of my family that isn't religious is very good for "telling on each other" so I don't say anything more then what I have to on both sides.
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Unread 05-01-2012, 08:45 PM   #671
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I've had the inkling desire to post under the billboard next to the highway, which declares
"You will meet God when you die."
with
"Which one?"




Which stems from the mild frustration of many people just calling their God, (The Christian/catholic/protestant one) simply "God". It does have a name, several in fact, that are relatively easy to find in the bible
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Unread 05-02-2012, 04:07 PM   #672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adorima View Post
Maybe that won't be the case though. I think that you just need to make it obvious how you feel about them talking about essentially you when they say,"I hate Atheists."
:\
Thanks Adorima.

I guess it's a bit difficult to feel like you can be polite and firm at the same time, and stand up for yourself without being aggressive. If it comes up again I think I'll be able to interject in a way that isn't aggressive-but firm in that I find it hurtful when friends say that.

I am told that 'but you're different', as if I should be happy that I am somehow being accepted by being what they perceive as different from the rest-I can only imagine how someone who is religious would take being told;
"Man I hate Christians, not you though-you're different and not like them"
I know I'd be pretty offended by it :/

Maybe people just really don't see how what they're saying can be hurtful or offensive. I've joked before about the 'rage comic' from ICHC where someone tells an Atheist "But you're such a nice person!"-that isn't far off from what I've had people say, what they don't realize to me it sounds like "You're such a good person DESPITE that" as if I have some sort of handicap.

Such is life?
Oh well.
Thank you for that advice, and I just realized it's been here for way too long without getting a response >>' sorry.
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Unread 05-02-2012, 06:59 PM   #673
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I think a confrontation would actually be helpful, if they are friends. Ask them if it is ok to hate jews, mualims or mormons. Then say why is it ok to hate me? Asking them bluntly like that would force them to try and rationalize a position that is unacceptable, especially amoung friends.

You could go one step further and tell them how similair your beliefs are in one way. Namely the fact that you both have a list of religions you reject. The difference is that your list adds just one more religion. (I.e. your friends religion)
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Unread 05-10-2012, 11:55 AM   #674
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@pinoy
So far it hasn't come up again and I haven't had to say anything on the matter. If it does, I don't really feel the need to get into a confrontation. To me that only cements the idea that atheists are sensitive about people disliking their beliefs but not to them disliking other peoples beliefs and it perpetuates this stupid stereotype that we'll cry about others oppressing us all the time.
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Unread 05-11-2012, 05:04 PM   #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithium Flower View Post
Thanks Adorima.

I guess it's a bit difficult to feel like you can be polite and firm at the same time, and stand up for yourself without being aggressive. If it comes up again I think I'll be able to interject in a way that isn't aggressive-but firm in that I find it hurtful when friends say that.

I am told that 'but you're different', as if I should be happy that I am somehow being accepted by being what they perceive as different from the rest-I can only imagine how someone who is religious would take being told;
"Man I hate Christians, not you though-you're different and not like them"
I know I'd be pretty offended by it :/

Maybe people just really don't see how what they're saying can be hurtful or offensive. I've joked before about the 'rage comic' from ICHC where someone tells an Atheist "But you're such a nice person!"-that isn't far off from what I've had people say, what they don't realize to me it sounds like "You're such a good person DESPITE that" as if I have some sort of handicap.

Such is life?
Oh well.
Thank you for that advice, and I just realized it's been here for way too long without getting a response >>' sorry.
No problem with the late response. I don't expect other people to post in a timely manner or at all sometimes because I know I don't always, lol. Yeah, I think people find that they're out of touch with others' feelings when they don't know where they're coming from or they're not being attentive/cautious to what they're saying (think-before-you-open-your-mouth type deal).

It's sad that people stereotype cuz I know there's an array of people within each group. If you pay attention, there's no way you can generalize the character of a group of people. Maybe your friends should go read a history book about the Crusades. To be straight up with you, Christians in general believe that having a lack of faith in God has to mean you have no standard to hold yourself to or morality and it's so surprising that we find someone who defies that. I think it's a good sign though. No offense, but I think God's working through you too.
And yes, I think it's life that people judge. Most of my liberal friends like my personality tho, so there's more to our relationship than a consensus on our political/religious views. Perhaps your buds are trying to pay you a complement, like you said, albeit clumsily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithium Flower View Post
@pinoy
So far it hasn't come up again and I haven't had to say anything on the matter. If it does, I don't really feel the need to get into a confrontation. To me that only cements the idea that atheists are sensitive about people disliking their beliefs but not to them disliking other peoples beliefs and it perpetuates this stupid stereotype that we'll cry about others oppressing us all the time.
Eh, I don't think you should be afraid of showing what you feel. To think that it's going to equate to some kind of specific impression just stifles you. So like my English teacher said about my essays on religion,"Don't apologize, just say it."
We all have to do what we believe is right. It's all any of us can do.

Not to say that this is indefinitely your scenario, I'm kind of leery about people who don't like to talk about the important stuff. I think my impression of fake friends is that they're always going,"TMI, TMI" or just don't have an input in what you have to say. That's part of the reason why I like this site, it's because no one's afraid to say what they think even though sometimes it can devolve into flamewars. Getting past all that is part of the fun of getting to know someone for real.
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