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[lateonomen]

Hello everyone.

I've seen some cosplay groups on the net, where there will be few artists, tailors, prop makers and photographers working as a team on certain projects.
Often these are friends (but not always, although I expect them to have some kind of camaraderie anyway) and teamwork can be associated with cutting down the costs of the costumes and getting very high-end results.

Are there similar groups in Canada? How popular such idea is, or would be?
I know that some of you combining efforts with other people, but it seems to be on odd occasions and I have rarely seen actual "dedicated groups" on advance, "master" level.

Thanks!

[adamantine]

Originally Posted by lateonomen

Hello everyone.

I've seen some cosplay groups on the net, where there will be few artists, tailors, prop makers and photographers working as a team on certain projects.
Often these are friends (but not always, although I expect them to have some kind of camaraderie anyway) and teamwork can be associated with cutting down the costs of the costumes and getting very high-end results.

Are there similar groups in Canada? How popular such idea is, or would be?
I know that some of you combining efforts with other people, but it seems to be on odd occasions and I have rarely seen actual "dedicated groups" on advance, "master" level.

Thanks!

There are only a couple that i know about in southwestern ontario.

[ChiisaiYume]

I know of only a couple too, but not on the advanced/master level. Most of the master level cosplayers I know are more or less solo cosplayers. Being in a group is really hard to maintain, people drop out, interests can change and you are bound to get different opinions. Being solo is easier, but that doesn't mean you can't collaborate from time to time! Since the cosplay community is pretty close knit, I think most groups just happen when people cosplay from the same series by chance.

[novaraven1]

I've been cosplaying with a group for about six years or so now.
We're not master level, and we rarely if ever compete in masquerades. We do it because we love costuming, love the series/characters we're working on, and want an excuse to hang out and come together.

We constantly have group as well as solo projects going, not everyone is involved in every single project and new people and friends do join in for photoshoots and things.
It's really not uncommon in my experience for cosplayers to work together and help each other find supplies and give advice on how to make things. We all help each other when we can.

A formal group is hard to see and define because of how projects go. An example would be my cosplay friend E loves Mass Effect and is slowly working on a costume from it. I don't have the money to put into a costume from that series, and I'm not really as enthusiastic about the fandom as she is, but I'll help her out where I can. There are other group projects that she is making outfits for that I am as well like our steampunk group and our Pandora hearts cosplays. And there are solo costumes that I'm working on for myself as well as pairs costumes that I am working on with my sister that have nothing to do with what the rest of our cosplay friends might be wearing on any given day of a convention.

That's just how it happens sometimes so it's very hard to see us as a whole group when we're out in public gatherings. I'm sure thats how it is for most people and why "cosplay groups" seem hard to find.

[adamantine]

I understand what concept lateonomen is looking for. Me my self im starting a new project come January. Right now im getting everything worked out and getting costumes finished.

[Rainbowgasm]

We aren't like... masters or anything... but I have a group of friends I cosplay with, and we do some same series group cosplays... I am the only one who can make full costumes and I do for myself and some others sometimes, but we mostly buy pieces either made or close enough to modify easily... we have a few good prop makers too... we're mostly just for fun though!

[lateonomen]

Thanks for the replies and PMs, all!

Looks like money play a big role whether to work in a group, or just buy certain elements for your project.
Few advanced groups that I've seen on the net were citing pooling artistic and financial resources due to high costs of each costume.

But then even if you can afford to be working solo on advanced projects and want to outsource, for example, props where is the guarantee that it will be properly done to your specifications?
If prop maker is physically remote from the customer, you are effectively removing or distancing yourself from the creative process with little chance for intervention, relying only on how well order request was communicated.

Originally Posted by ChiisaiYume

...Since the cosplay community is pretty close knit, I think most groups just happen when people cosplay from the same series by chance.

Good point, it is easier to find a common ground with others when trying to cosplay from the same series.

Doing your projects solo might be good in a way that it allows for more creativity freedom, but drawback is necessity to do everything on your own, or buy services, or ready products from others.

Originally Posted by novaraven1

I've been cosplaying with a group for about six years or so now.
We're not master level, and we rarely if ever compete in masquerades. We do it because we love costuming, love the series/characters we're working on, and want an excuse to hang out and come together

That is one of the things I wanted to hear
Masquerades and other competitions are certainly fun, but the main driving force would be the love for making costumes which is fun on its own, never mind a good company.

I was thinking about group helping each other to complete work on the same series, but just helping each other to work on costumes from completely different series make sense and also explains a seeming rarity of the organized groups, as you have mentioned.

Originally Posted by adamantine

I understand what concept lateonomen is looking for. Me my self im starting a new project come January. Right now im getting everything worked out and getting costumes finished.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Rainbowgasm

We aren't like... masters or anything... but I have a group of friends I cosplay with, and we do some same series group cosplays... I am the only one who can make full costumes and I do for myself and some others sometimes, but we mostly buy pieces either made or close enough to modify easily... we have a few good prop makers too... we're mostly just for fun though!

Oh, the things we do for fun!
There are certainly a lot of groups of friends that use cosplay as recreational activity and not necessary aiming to replicate “high-fashion designs” for various reasons. That is a bit different approach, where I would say the “game” element prevails over accuracy of the costumes.

My question is more related to those who concentrate on costume detalization and transfer of the subject concepts to life. It is quite difficult (if not nearly impossible, depending on how far you want to go) to do everything on your own.

[Rainbowgasm]

Originally Posted by lateonomen

Oh, the things we do for fun!
There are certainly a lot of groups of friends that use cosplay as recreational activity and not necessary aiming to replicate “high-fashion designs” for various reasons. That is a bit different approach, where I would say the “game” element prevails over accuracy of the costumes.

My question is more related to those who concentrate on costume detalization and transfer of the subject concepts to life. It is quite difficult (if not nearly impossible, depending on how far you want to go) to do everything on your own.

I'm a little confused on your response? Our costumes don't lack detail if that's what you mean... Just because we're in it for the fun doesn't mean we skimp out... We pride ourselves of being as accurate as possible, even to the point of pushing the budget beyond what we originally intended... If it can't be accurate, I refuse to wear it... I'm not exactly sure what you meant here, but if you DO mean that cosplayers who are in it for fun don't make accurate costumes, I'm rather insulted by that... I'll have you know you can be accurate and still have fun...

[Angathol]

I think I know what you mean; I've heard that collaborative efforts are common in Russia, where cosplayers function as "teams" (often with names). They'll have one or more people collaborating to do patterning, propmaking, costume construction, and various other tasks, and sometimes they'll do all this for one single costume.

In the western cosplay scene (i.e. North America), it seems most cosplayers who make costumes will make single costumes for themselves to wear, sometimes asking others for help but trying to make it mostly themselves. Collaborative efforts can be kind of sketchy when it comes to masquerade judging, as preference in judging is given to those who make as much of their costumes themselves as possible.

If we all have our own projects to complete, it can be difficult to find the time to collaborate with others. However, many of my friends do help each other out on costumes, even if it's just a last minute "hey, can you give me a hand?" thing. Lately I haven't been making anything new, so I've actually found I really enjoy helping other people on their costumes wherever possible. The most fun I had at a recent convention was being the Jill-of-all-trades helper in an apartment with five people getting ready for a Bat Family group for Fan Expo. I did makeup for two of the guys, did last-minute repairs or fixes on costumes, and ran around touchups in places, like loose threads or other minor things that would improve overall presentation. It was fantastic! I spent my day at the convention being handler/pack mule for one of the five, which was also fun since I'm usually the one in costume having to rely on others. I don't mind having others rely on me as long as my efforts are appreciated.

The biggest collaborative project I've done was a pair of Code Geass CLAMP costumes with one of my best friends. She did Suzaku, and I did Lelouch. She completed parts of my costume when I was running out of time, and I hand-drew the designs she painted. I'd like to do more collaborative projects in the future as long as I'm not competing, since I'm not sure what kind of guidelines there are for that yet. (I'm sure Sarcasm-hime or Kaijugal will come along here and help me out on this one though, hint hint? )

[novaraven1]

@Rainbowgasm - Wow, really? I don't think he was trying to personally insult your cosplay skills. I don't doubt you have fun when you cosplay and I think you just missed his point.

The assumption seemed to be that Hallcosplays (people wearing them for fun at cons and not entering them in the masq) are often plainer and less elaborate. They do in fact have to be, even though people constantly try to push the limits of this, for the sake of basic mobility issues. It is almost always a conscious choice on the part of the cosplayer what specific costume they work on and take to what event.

For casual social outings where I want to have fun and not worry about things falling off my outfit I always wear lolita or kimono. I only take more elaborate cosplays to larger cons where I don't plan on walking much further then the lobby or save them for shoots.

The way I read it the issue for discussion here is not about "accuracy and skill", it's about how many people you have working on them vs wearing them and the appropriate time and place to find different types of costumes.

Does everyone else do the same thing I do and have different levels of cosplay for different types of events?

[Rainbowgasm]

Originally Posted by novaraven1

@Rainbowgasm - Wow, really? I don't think he was trying to personally insult your cosplay skills. I don't doubt you have fun when you cosplay and I think you just missed his point.

The assumption seemed to be that Hallcosplays (people wearing them for fun at cons and not entering them in the masq) are often plainer and less elaborate. They do in fact have to be, even though people constantly try to push the limits of this, for the sake of basic mobility issues. It is almost always a conscious choice on the part of the cosplayer what specific costume they work on and take to what event.

For casual social outings where I want to have fun and not worry about things falling off my outfit I always wear lolita or kimono. I only take more elaborate cosplays to larger cons where I don't plan on walking much further then the lobby or save them for shoots.

The way I read it the issue for discussion here is not about "accuracy and skill", it's about how many people you have working on them vs wearing them and the appropriate time and place to find different types of costumes.

Does everyone else do the same thing I do and have different levels of cosplay for different types of events?

....... I think YOUR missing MY point... you can have fun and be accurate too... and elaborate... we're doing Code Geass next year and only the 3/6 costumes are going on the masq. because I'm making them... that's pretty elaborate for 'hall cosplay' by your definition... sure we take new costumes to bigger cons because they get the most attention there, but after the first go, any outfit can go to any convention... I would take my Euphie ballgown to a smaller event, no problem...
I understand the point of the thread, but I DID answer the initial question only to be told my answer is invalid because we have fun with it... and that fun can't= accuracy... which is so incredibly wrong... talk about a stereotype...
"My question is more related to those who concentrate on costume detalization and transfer of the subject concepts to life. It is quite difficult (if not nearly impossible, depending on how far you want to go) to do everything on your own."- I do just that, detail is very important and we try our best to transfer character into real life... I'm not saying he's taking a personal hit on me, its just very rude to assume that everyone cosplaying for fun wont pay attention to details...

[Angathol]

Originally Posted by Rainbowgasm

....... I think YOUR missing MY point... you can have fun and be accurate too... and elaborate... we're doing Code Geass next year and only the 3/6 costumes are going on the masq. because I'm making them... that's pretty elaborate for 'hall cosplay' by your definition... sure we take new costumes to bigger cons because they get the most attention there, but after the first go, any outfit can go to any convention... I would take my Euphie ballgown to a smaller event, no problem...
I understand the point of the thread, but I DID answer the initial question only to be told my answer is invalid because we have fun with it... and that fun can't= accuracy... which is so incredibly wrong... talk about a stereotype...
"My question is more related to those who concentrate on costume detalization and transfer of the subject concepts to life. It is quite difficult (if not nearly impossible, depending on how far you want to go) to do everything on your own."- I do just that, detail is very important and we try our best to transfer character into real life... I'm not saying he's taking a personal hit on me, its just very rude to assume that everyone cosplaying for fun wont pay attention to details...

novaraven is more likely trying to say that generally people don't go all-out for hall costumes in terms of elaborate things because they can frequently be less comfortable and less convenient for simple socializing; they'll save more elaborate, less comfortable things for events they will be spending less time at, for the sake of say, competition. Without a reason to wear a big, inconvenient costume that's difficult to move in other than simply for the sake of wearing it, it's simply more practical for cosplayers to wear simpler and less potentially fragile costumes for socialization, particularly in the event that something goes wrong, like getting bumped into, a drink spill, or some such thing. There are too many variables in a public hallway and many of us want to be as careful as possible with costumes we've spent a lot of time and money on.

This doesn't mean she's saying this will be the same for everyone, and you don't have to feel bad because your situation is different from one that someone else is describing. There's nothing wrong with wearing something bigger or more elaborate as long as you're being careful and minding your own business, which I'm sure you are.

As for lateonomen's response to you, I really don't think he's saying having fun and being accurate/elaborate/putting effort into your costumes/etc. are mutually exclusive; by "having fun" he's probably referring to "just cosplaying," as in doing hall cosplay and not competing or doing artistic photoshoots and so on. He's not saying the two are separate ideas, or saying you can't "have fun" as in enjoy yourself. You may have been interpreting his statement too literally there.

Don't take this as me singling you out; I just wanted to try to moderate this thread to keep things civil in here, and work out any misunderstandings so that discussion can continue. I'm interested to hear other people's ideas or experiences regarding collaborating as groups.

[SuperBee]

I'll stick in my two cents... I WISH I had groups to work with... Right now it seems that I am the only one. I mean I don't mind making my own but I have a lot of friends who like the idea of cosplaying but don't go any further than that, even with the suggestion of everyone pitching in.

I have never entered a masquerade and not sure I want to. I am there to enjoy my time there, being in cosplay and admiring others while they admire mine.

[Rainbowgasm]

Originally Posted by Angathol

novaraven is more likely trying to say that generally people don't go all-out for hall costumes in terms of elaborate things because they can frequently be less comfortable and less convenient for simple socializing; they'll save more elaborate, less comfortable things for events they will be spending less time at, for the sake of say, competition. Without a reason to wear a big, inconvenient costume that's difficult to move in other than simply for the sake of wearing it, it's simply more practical for cosplayers to wear simpler and less potentially fragile costumes for socialization, particularly in the event that something goes wrong, like getting bumped into, a drink spill, or some such thing. There are too many variables in a public hallway and many of us want to be as careful as possible with costumes we've spent a lot of time and money on.

This doesn't mean she's saying this will be the same for everyone, and you don't have to feel bad because your situation is different from one that someone else is describing. There's nothing wrong with wearing something bigger or more elaborate as long as you're being careful and minding your own business, which I'm sure you are.

As for lateonomen's response to you, I really don't think he's saying having fun and being accurate/elaborate/putting effort into your costumes/etc. are mutually exclusive; by "having fun" he's probably referring to "just cosplaying," as in doing hall cosplay and not competing or doing artistic photoshoots and so on. He's not saying the two are separate ideas, or saying you can't "have fun" as in enjoy yourself. You may have been interpreting his statement too literally there.

Don't take this as me singling you out; I just wanted to try to moderate this thread to keep things civil in here, and work out any misunderstandings so that discussion can continue. I'm interested to hear other people's ideas or experiences regarding collaborating as groups.

Maybe its because I and my group consider elaborate, artistic photoshoots and such IS fun? When I said 'we are just in it for the fun', I wasn't meaning that we only do it to run around at cons and talk to people, sure thats a part of the fun, but we do photoshoots every few weekends and at cons when the location allows for it, I've even personally started entering masquerades and will be making 3 costumes for a performance at ANs... maybe our idea of what 'just for fun' is is different?
Personally adding all the details and trying to make things perfect is fun... so it seemed kind of... strange... that it was assumed fun would be LESS accurate? I thought a good majority of people thought of it this way, but I guess not...
My reference to not being a Master was in terms of masq. level... I'm still a novice, but to me that doesn't mean anything because there are amazing cosplayers who never enter anything, so they don't have the awards to show for it... I truly believe you don't have to make your own costumes to be an amazing cosplayer... there is skill in finding the right outfit to buy, and the right wig and so on... if it was easy, well... 'bad' cosplay wouldn't exist... at least not in the leaps and bounds it does...

[Angathol]

Originally Posted by Rainbowgasm

Maybe its because I and my group consider elaborate, artistic photoshoots and such IS fun? When I said 'we are just in it for the fun', I wasn't meaning that we only do it to run around at cons and talk to people, sure thats a part of the fun, but we do photoshoots every few weekends and at cons when the location allows for it, I've even personally started entering masquerades and will be making 3 costumes for a performance at ANs... maybe our idea of what 'just for fun' is is different?
Personally adding all the details and trying to make things perfect is fun... so it seemed kind of... strange... that it was assumed fun would be LESS accurate? I thought a good majority of people thought of it this way, but I guess not...
My reference to not being a Master was in terms of masq. level... I'm still a novice, but to me that doesn't mean anything because there are amazing cosplayers who never enter anything, so they don't have the awards to show for it... I truly believe you don't have to make your own costumes to be an amazing cosplayer... there is skill in finding the right outfit to buy, and the right wig and so on... if it was easy, well... 'bad' cosplay wouldn't exist... at least not in the leaps and bounds it does...

I can see what you mean in terms of things meaning different things to different people; just be sure to recognize that "having fun/just for fun" is a figure of speech for some. Photoshoots ARE fun. Making serious costumes IS fun. If it wasn't enjoyable, people wouldn't do them. Sometimes other people just use "just for fun" as a phrase to mean "non-competitive," making something simple, not making each individual piece yourself, or paying less attention to detail. That doesn't mean treating your stuff seriously =/= fun. It can just be stressful to be that focused on the construction of something difficult or detail-intensive, let alone having to wear it later on, so these non-competitive things can be an escape from that, hence where the figure of speech comes in.

Now that this has been cleared up, let's drop the subject, okay?