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Unread 04-22-2012, 11:56 AM   #61
Nemuren
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Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
It's funny to see that on the AX Forums, people are more embracing of the X-Games while that doesn't seem to be the case here.
So a single thread with eight posts is "funny" compared to the ongoing discussion here. Okay then.

It should be obvious since this is on a cosplay forum that many of the concerns stated here are from those who would want to cosplay at AX. Fact is, the X-Games will bring in at least 3-to-4 times the number of people into that area than who would normally be there for just AX. Leaving concerns over behavior aside, that's a logistical nightmare. Traffic, both foot and vehicle, will be insane. You are right in that we can't expect AX to protect anyone outside the convention area, but what we're missing here is any sense of how AX would work around the X-Games.

We still don't know where shuttles are going to drop off at the LACC. We still don't know what foot paths guests of the closest hotels are supposed to use. We still don't know if the entrances at both West Hall and South Hall will be usable. We still don't know what outdoor areas will be available for cosplay gatherings. As I've said, I'm not so concerned with being near sports fans, my concern is not knowing how this event is supposed to function, especially for people like me for whom cosplay is the main reason to go.

And you're right, we don't have to go at all if this concerns us so much, which I'm certainly considering. I just hope AX answers our concerns as best they can. But the longer they stay quiet, the more it looks to me like they're doing their best to hide the X-Games and the hassles they will bring from unaware AX attendees for as long as possible.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 12:25 PM   #62
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After reading this entire thread, it sounds to me as though you are dismissing or misunderstanding our concerns.

So far, you have no real information for us yet you continue to post as though you know something and are unwilling to tell us.

When AX happens, I will be 8 months pregnant. Will there be a straight path to the convention center or will I have to walk round about to get to the dealers hall or cosplay gatherings? I have been going to AX since 2003 and it is not in my plans to stop going. I, for one, would like to know if I have to walk out of my way to get to the convention center. Because at 8 months pregnant, I would not be thrilled to have to walk 5 blocks away from the JW Marriott to get to the convention center because AX was unable to provide a straight course past the Staples Center. And no, I am not going to cram myself onto the sad little yellow school bus to drive a block and a half.

And what about parents who are unaware of the happenings going on in the area because their offspring are unaware? This is due to the lack of any information coming from AX management regarding the issues. They cannot leave everything to their convention goers, as that would be irresponsible of management.

Are you a member of AX management, a volunteer, or are you an attendee? This is not meant to be a confrontational question. I merely want to know. If you are AX management or a volunteer, then your lack of concern over our questions reflects poorly on the institution you represent.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 12:48 PM   #63
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Since I don't have kids, I may not totally familiar with parents' concerns, but years working at a water park has made me wary of any parent willing to just drop off their minor child at a place where there will be a wide variety of people. It is not AX's job to babysit kids.

I don't work on AX Staff, but have attended every AX that's been held in L.A., and I've lived in L.A. for years before that. I find it really ridiculous to assume that attendees of two different events can't be in the same area at the same time. Talk of who to sue when no facts have been presented as to event scheduling for either event is really nonproductive.

These are the only known facts from official websites:
AX and X-Games are being held on the same weekend
AX is being held in the L.A. Convention Center
AX has been selling badges since the end of the previous AX (if not earlier)
X-Games announced ticket pre-sales will start May 21
X-Games has not announced where in L.A. events will be held (of if they're gonna be like Arte Moreno with the Angels and actually hold it in Anaheim but call it L.A.).

If X-Games can wait a month before the event to even start selling tickets to fans with much less information (ticket prices for X-Games hasn't even been announced), I think we as con goers can also practice a little patience. I also am not sure what value there is to know road closures and traffic rerouting this far in advance. I'm not even thinking about the public transportation routes I need to take on one of my overseas trips until 3 weeks before I leave as things may change until the last minute. It shouldn't take weeks to plan one's walking route from point A to point B.

There are some reasonable concerns about maneuverability, but two months is still a little bit far too early to worry about this level of detail planning (on the attendee's side) when the other event hasn't even made any official announcements about venue locations or even started selling tickets yet. I've worked at several marathons, and I didn't even know what roads will be closed until three weeks before the event (even only one week when I worked at the L.A. Marathon).

And as for sharing a space with people coming for different reasons, as one commented in the Dragon*Con article "We’re just going to have to deal with that." Same is true when you're a fan of a visiting team or being a foreigner in an area of the country normally frequented by locals.

Anyway, that's all I really have to say for now until I see actual programming schedules for both AX and X-Games. I know I would like to get tickets to X-Games if they are actually going to be held nearby.

Last edited by amateur cameko : 04-22-2012 at 01:45 PM. Reason: More commentary
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Unread 04-22-2012, 06:24 PM   #64
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I think we're getting worked up over some minor issues where the real issue is mainly that of access but even that not this great lock down as some suggest. At best it be like AX10 with the World cup where we had those douches with the vuvula's blasting them all night and day and annoying the hell out of us. The streets being closed off is to traffic as they still have their own crowd who needs to mill around so they won't shoot themselves in the foot by making it a cluster*beep* to move from one side of the area to another. If you're driving, yeah minor pain in your ass. For us already there AXer's not so much.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 12:26 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
Since I don't have kids, I may not totally familiar with parents' concerns, but years working at a water park has made me wary of any parent willing to just drop off their minor child at a place where there will be a wide variety of people. It is not AX's job to babysit kids.
However, providing a full picture of logistical information is AX's job. Water parks don't have massive changes to their structure because of someone else taking over a large amount of the square footage it usually inhabits. To use your vacation analogy, yes, you study maps of where you're going. However, those maps don't include blurbs that state, "There's something probably going on over here, but we have no idea of what's going to happen, so just plan on walking through anyway."

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Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
I don't work on AX Staff, but have attended every AX that's been held in L.A., and I've lived in L.A. for years before that. I find it really ridiculous to assume that attendees of two different events can't be in the same area at the same time. Talk of who to sue when no facts have been presented as to event scheduling for either event is really nonproductive.
This is all conversation coming because we don't have the information we need to plan. I've been in attendance of 18 out of 21 Anime Expos, and this is new territory when the AX isn't in control of the hotel and/or area its inhabiting, and while they may not think that's too big of a deal, it's a concern when we don't know where exactly to go to get around what's happening in the area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
These are the only known facts from official websites:
AX and X-Games are being held on the same weekend
AX is being held in the L.A. Convention Center
AX has been selling badges since the end of the previous AX (if not earlier)
X-Games announced ticket pre-sales will start May 21
X-Games has not announced where in L.A. events will be held (of if they're gonna be like Arte Moreno with the Angels and actually hold it in Anaheim but call it L.A.).
However, we can figure out that since ESPN has a vested interest in the area, and they have a broadcast studio on top of the ESPN Zone at L.A. Live, then logistically, it makes a lot of sense for them to stay put. We also know that since L.A. Live opened, that's where the Summer X-Games have taken place with the only variation being the location of the rally in the last two years. Additionally, standard business practice is to provide the most for your customer at the lowest cost reasonably necessary. Under that scenario, then there's no reason for the rally to move since AEG has a vested interest in keeping as much as possible nearby to drive ticket sales.

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Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
If X-Games can wait a month before the event to even start selling tickets to fans with much less information (ticket prices for X-Games hasn't even been announced), I think we as con goers can also practice a little patience. I also am not sure what value there is to know road closures and traffic rerouting this far in advance. I'm not even thinking about the public transportation routes I need to take on one of my overseas trips until 3 weeks before I leave as things may change until the last minute. It shouldn't take weeks to plan one's walking route from point A to point B.
I think four months is a lot of time to pass with no information. Especially when there's only 2 months to go and you need to pass that information on to 30,000 to 40,000 people. Also, when there's 200,000 extra people to inhabit a one-mile strip of an area, then traffic routes are necessary when you are talking about an area that already sees a serious amount of traffic, and there can be even more pressure when there's word of construction to start at L.A. Live in June or July if AEG has its way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
There are some reasonable concerns about maneuverability, but two months is still a little bit far too early to worry about this level of detail planning (on the attendee's side) when the other event hasn't even made any official announcements about venue locations or even started selling tickets yet. I've worked at several marathons, and I didn't even know what roads will be closed until three weeks before the event (even only one week when I worked at the L.A. Marathon).
There is a difference when you're talking about marathons which generally have pre-set routes. There's not as much logistical planning involved. However, when the L.A. Marathon announced its route change, they did it six months in advance of the next year. That's an example of excellent communication since they have to reach a large amount of people.

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Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
And as for sharing a space with people coming for different reasons, as one commented in the Dragon*Con article "We’re just going to have to deal with that." Same is true when you're a fan of a visiting team or being a foreigner in an area of the country normally frequented by locals.

Anyway, that's all I really have to say for now until I see actual programming schedules for both AX and X-Games. I know I would like to get tickets to X-Games if they are actually going to be held nearby.
Dragon*Con didn't "just deal with it." They changed a lot after that incident by changing their guest structure, increasing security, and keeping communication open with their patrons. They adapted.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 12:28 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Citrakite View Post
I think we're getting worked up over some minor issues where the real issue is mainly that of access but even that not this great lock down as some suggest. At best it be like AX10 with the World cup where we had those douches with the vuvula's blasting them all night and day and annoying the hell out of us. The streets being closed off is to traffic as they still have their own crowd who needs to mill around so they won't shoot themselves in the foot by making it a cluster*beep* to move from one side of the area to another. If you're driving, yeah minor pain in your ass. For us already there AXer's not so much.
Do you happen to know about how to move through all of this? The X-Games Maps for 2010 and 2011 have Entrances blocking the L.A. Live Plaza, both ends of Chick Hearns St. by the Convention Center, and the street next to the Marriott. If these are gated entrances, then we have to go around.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 08:02 AM   #67
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Also, when there's 200,000 extra people to inhabit a one-mile strip of an area, then traffic routes are necessary when you are talking about an area that already sees a serious amount of traffic.
Yeah...there's already 100,000+ people that inhabit the Coliseum or The Rose Bowl almost every Saturday during college football season, making it a pain to get on the 110 or out of Pasadena. I'm pretty sure large venue operators know how to accommodate large groups of people coming from all over the place.

Seriously, calm down. Practice a little patience and don't make assumptions about sports fans and sporting events. I've been to many sports events, and drunks are such a tiny, tiny, tiny group.

And if you still believe this year's X-Games will be exactly the same as last year (despite the fact that no information has been presented about this year's X-Games venues has been posted yet), here's a commuter map . And if you are really worried about dealing with X-Games fans walking down the street, then take Hope St. If you can't walk 1 mile (which is the distance from JW Marriott to South Hall from several routes I looked at), then there are other other things you probably need to deal with before worrying about coming here.

And stop trying to compare Dragon*Con to AX. I saw a lot of comments on that Dragon*Con blog post already saying that one shouldn't compare it to Comic Con, so I see no point trying to compare it to AX. L.A. is different from Atlanta. X-Games fans are different from college football fans.

I'm done talking on this thread. I find that I can't convince anyone here to have a little patience or learn to adapt themselves.

Last edited by amateur cameko : 04-23-2012 at 08:10 AM.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 10:12 AM   #68
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Jw one mile? Dude it's only 2 blocks from south hall
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Unread 04-23-2012, 10:19 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Freight View Post
[...]But this is still an issue with the SPJA/IDG because they're not adapting to the new situation that creates safety issues.[...]
I'll leave out the other section since we won't ever come eye to eye on that. For now, we can speculate as much as we want and that will be all it will be, speculation. Poor communication doesn't equate to willful ignorance.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 11:43 AM   #70
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Yeah...there's already 100,000+ people that inhabit the Coliseum or The Rose Bowl almost every Saturday during college football season, making it a pain to get on the 110 or out of Pasadena. I'm pretty sure large venue operators know how to accommodate large groups of people coming from all over the place.

Yes, but the BIG difference here is that when they hold those games, it's not right next to an anime con or a sci-fi con. Historically, it has never been a good idea to mix the two groups together.

Quote:
And stop trying to compare Dragon*Con to AX. I saw a lot of comments on that Dragon*Con blog post already saying that one shouldn't compare it to Comic Con, so I see no point trying to compare it to AX. L.A. is different from Atlanta. X-Games fans are different from college football fans.
Actually, I've been to DragonCon and Atlanta. I've also been going AX off & on since since it opened in 1992. Having been to both AX & DragonCon, I would say that the only real difference is that DragonCon has a a far less restrictive weapons policy. Also I felt a lot a safer in Atlanta, than in LA. (The fans don't usually riot when their basketball team wins the NBA championship.)

DragonCon keeps repeating the same old mantra joke that they are not "Comic Con", because the emphasis is going to be on the fans, and not become a tradeshow like Comic Con. (They certainly aren't using that joke, because they are from Atlanta and Comic Con is on San Diego.)

Also, there were a number of fistfights at Comic Con as well in the past, when it was held next to a sports game. I myself almost had a confrontation, when I was eating at a fastfood restaurant when I was in San Diego, when a bunch of those drunken sports fans saw me & my cosplaying friends eating inside. ( There were no security nearby, and no police nearby either. And it wouldn't have been really smart to walk away from the restaurant. And if I recall correctly, San Diego is a lot closer to LA than Atlanta.)

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If you can't walk 1 mile (which is the distance from JW Marriott to South Hall from several routes I looked at), then there are other other things you probably need to deal with before worrying about coming here.
Um..I really don't think the distance is one mile to walk straight from the J.W. Marriott to the South Hall entrance. The convention center isn't THAT big.

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I've been to many sports events, and drunks are such a tiny, tiny, tiny group.
Oh, you mean like when the Lakers won the 2010 NBA championship against the Boston Celtics at the Staples Center? I'm sure the rioters were "such a tiny, tiny, tiny group." (I don't recall Atlanta ever having a sports riot this bad, and this took place at the LA Live area, and the convention center.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbqTK...ure=plpp_video

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X-Games fans are different from college football fans.
Um...No.

You do realize that some of the gangbangers would also show up at the X-Games, right?

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I'm done talking on this thread. I find that I can't convince anyone here to have a little patience or learn to adapt themselves.
You know, it's one thing to agree or disagree with the thread, but it's not prudent to lash out at everyone, just because some of them don't agree with you.

Last edited by Hakaider : 04-23-2012 at 12:17 PM.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 11:49 AM   #71
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Jw one mile? Dude it's only 2 blocks from south hall
Thank you, but I don't think camoneko fully grasps what we're trying to work out here, or what kind of information we need to pass on to our friends and family, such as what are the options now for people in wheelchairs and their chaparones? They mostly seem to stay in the Luxe and the JW Marriott as the shuttles don't have a lot of handicapped access. How do they get around this?

I think I see something that liiks like a staircase bridge over Chick Hearns, but it seems to be behind an XGames entrance, so I can't tell if it is accessible. Either way, that doesn't help someone that requires ramped throughways. They may be stuck going out the opposite end of L.A. Live.

Also, is anyone aware if the Rally course is a set of barriers up for one day or does it stretch the 4 days of the event?
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Unread 04-23-2012, 12:58 PM   #72
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such as what are the options now for people in wheelchairs and their chaparones? They mostly seem to stay in the Luxe and the JW Marriott as the shuttles don't have a lot of handicapped access. How do they get around this?
I think this going to be one of those years where "handicap access" at AX is going to be difficult.


Quote:
Also, is anyone aware if the Rally course is a set of barriers up for one day or does it stretch the 4 days of the event?
I'm not sure exactly how many days that they actually had it up, but I think that it was up for at least for 2 days. They were blocking off the streets before the X-Games even started last year.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 01:25 PM   #73
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I am not lashing out at everyone, just those who seem to automatically assume the worst in people in a city I've lived in for years because of one incident in another city that happened two years ago. If you have any issue with any fact I have presented, you can PM me as that option has always been there. I will not waste any more of my time trying to defend actual facts I presented, and if you want some concerns addressed by AX Staff, you can always use the official forums.

As for transporting wheelchairs, has anyone actually bothered to call the hotels to see if they offer shuttle service?

This will be my last comment on this thread.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 02:04 PM   #74
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ax legally has to have wheelchair access. when they release the specks if there isnt a way to get to the convention center there is a huge lawsuit. Guys, i find it somewhat pointless to be arguing about this kind of stuff before both ax and the xgames have given their maps. Odds are its gonna change from last year or the year b4
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Unread 04-23-2012, 02:08 PM   #75
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I am not lashing out at everyone, just those who seem to automatically assume the worst in people in a city I've lived in for years because of one incident in another city that happened two years ago.
Actually I live here too. And assuming the worst? No, it is not an assumption. It is a fact. While LA has lot of good hearted people in the city, LAPD will be the first people to tell you that LA has a far higher crime rate, and has far more gangbangers than Atlanta. The Lakers riots in 2010 were far worse than anything that ever happened at DragonCon.

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if you want some concerns addressed by AX Staff, you can always use the official forums.
Well considering that the AX forums went down for a few weeks, and there is a considerable lack of information with the con only a few short months away, I'm afraid that it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, does it? And so far, they aren't really discussing about how things are going to be worked out with the X-Games over there in that forum. (It seems like it's an issue that to be avoided.)

Many people found about the X-Games here, and not over there. If I had to rely on the AX forum alone, even I wouldn't know that there was going to be an X-Games going on at the same time.

Freight has also mentioned in the past that, when he called the SPJA office on the phone, and he expressed his concerns. He could clearly hear them writing it down, and then crumpling the paper up afterwards. (It goes to show that there are some in SPJA who are more concerned about themselves, than the fans themselves. Not all are like that of course, but for those that do, they seem to forget that there wouldn't be a SPJA in the first place, if it wasn't for the fans.)


This kind of reminds me of the story with the famous late singer, Frank Sinatra. Frank was signing some autographs for some of his fans, when his agent rudely interrupted him, and pulled him away. Frank scolded him in public, and told him that if it wasn't for the fans, both he and his agent wouldn't even have a job. Frank then went back and continued signing all the autographs.


Instead of being "distant" to the fans, it wouldn't hurt for the SPJA members (Especially Marc Perez) to come down, talk to the fans, and listen to their concerns at the convention. (After all, they do owe their very existence as SPJA members to the fans.)


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As for transporting wheelchairs, has anyone actually bothered to call the hotels to see if they offer shuttle service?
I think the point in the discussion was about how the handicap people are going to be able to get inside the convention center, when the major access points may be blocked off, and not about how they will be transported out of the hotel. How are people with the wheelchairs are going to be able to get inside the convention center once the hotel drops them off? (If it was already going to be difficult for the cosplayers to get in, it will be twice as difficult for the handicapped people to get inside.)

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This will be my last comment on this thread.
That's what you said on the previous post. Sometimes, you can't take things too personally when people are going to discuss & disagree with you.

Last edited by Hakaider : 04-23-2012 at 05:32 PM.
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