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Unread 04-21-2012, 09:46 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
Right now, people on this forum are having preconceived notions of what X-Games fans (which hasn't been confirmed by ESPN itself that they will even be near the area) will do when they see a bunch of people attending an anime convention...I'm pretty sure most people, even drunk, will just do a double-take at the cosplay and continue on their way. If that wasn't the case, they would've never held Star Trek conventions in Vegas...

I grew up in Las Vegas, and there are many different events going on at the same time, with attendees to these different events more likely staying at the same hotel. For example, on the same week last December, there was the Rock 'n Roll Marathon, Michael Jackson Fan Fest, the National Finals Rodeo, and a NASCAR event all going on on the Strip. The only issue I heard about that week was runners getting sick on the night time marathon run (a good reason why most marathons are held in the morning and when you can run on empty stomach). The point of the story is that you can have a bunch of fans of what to some may be mutually exclusive things in the same place, and more likely than not there will be more socializing than harrassing.

I agree with FancyIndia. If you really think a group of people that you may never encounter will actually come and bother you, then maybe you should just do something else that weekend. Very rarely does anyone want to pick a fight. The only people who do are the ones who think they can win and feel they have something to prove.
Well, preparedness is necessary, and that's what we're trying to decide since we're not getting much from the AX... or they're telling their people not to give us anything. I'm not sure. However, bigger cons than the AX have encountered some very visceral harassment by parties in the same area such as this event.

And it doesn't take more than one person to give another person a very bad time.

And sorry for the double post, but I was getting more Internal Server errors.
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Unread 04-21-2012, 10:02 PM   #62
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man i never heard of that incident at dragon-con, i swear to god if i see any douche vebally abusing or any kind of harassment to anyone there will be problems. i just cant let these kinda things go buy without anyone doing anything.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 12:09 AM   #63
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With the case in 2010 of fans being stabbed at the USC-UCLA game at the Rose Bowl and the Giants fan beating last year at Dodger Stadium, I would think sporting event organizers in L.A. would boost up security to keep such problems from happening to avoid a PR nightmare.

Again, I still think it's a bad to assume that because college football fans caused some trouble in Atlanta, then extreme sports fans in L.A. must also be troublemakers. The only useful advice anyone could give when sharing a space with people who may be different from you (hotel, street, opposing team's stadium, college campus, being an American in a foreign country, an urban area like downtown L.A., etc) is travel in groups (or find someone to escort you if uncomfortable traveling alone) and be aware of your surroundings. And if confronted by someone bothering you, walk/run away if possible. If not possible, try to get the attention of people nearby. This is pretty basic college orientation stuff.

Exactly what do you want AX Staff to do when you're outside of the convention space? If you're that concerned about being harassed at the hotel, then stay at the Westin Bonaventure where most AX attendees stay at who will probably have your back and you can take a shuttle that takes you directly to the convention center. Or just don't go.

It's funny to see that on the AX Forums, people are more embracing of the X-Games while that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Last edited by amateur cameko : 04-22-2012 at 01:12 AM. Reason: Adding more commentary. Added link to safety tips.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 04:40 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
It's funny to see that on the AX Forums, people are more embracing of the X-Games while that doesn't seem to be the case here.
To each their own I guess. Maybe these people just want to get on TV, who knows.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 09:24 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
With the case in 2010 of fans being stabbed at the USC-UCLA game at the Rose Bowl and the Giants fan beating last year at Dodger Stadium, I would think sporting event organizers in L.A. would boost up security to keep such problems from happening to avoid a PR nightmare.
I do think police presence will be enhanced some, but pointed out in a previous post, there's a baseball series going on that weekend at Dodgers Stadium the entire weekend, and they require a lot of officers for their standing security. There's going to be need in several places, so I'd imagine that things will be rather stretched.

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Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
Again, I still think it's a bad to assume that because college football fans caused some trouble in Atlanta, then extreme sports fans in L.A. must also be troublemakers. The only useful advice anyone could give when sharing a space with people who may be different from you (hotel, street, opposing team's stadium, college campus, being an American in a foreign country, an urban area like downtown L.A., etc) is travel in groups (or find someone to escort you if uncomfortable traveling alone) and be aware of your surroundings. And if confronted by someone bothering you, walk/run away if possible. If not possible, try to get the attention of people nearby. This is pretty basic college orientation stuff.
That's what we've been discussing. Could you clarify something for me? You keep advocating that there's nothing to worry about, but you're also advocating wariness. So, is there nothing to worry about or something to worry about?

And please understand, I'm not overly worried about myself. I'm 35 years old, 270 pounds. I can take care of myself. However, I am worried that there is limited discussion or preparedness by the SJPA or AX staff. The most of a notification I've seen about the situation is a happenstance post in my own rooming thread by someone, and from there, we began a discussion, and there are a lot of younger people that may be unaware of this issue.

The discussion was pretty benign until another poster found the X-Games 2011 map, the one that shows the X-Games ownership of the L.A. Live area and putting the people in the Luxe and the Marriott to walking either unsafe distances or into unsavory areas to circumvent the X-Games borders. I went did my own digging and found the 2010 X-Games Map. The rally wasn't there, but the set up in the L.A. Live setup is very similar, so there is a high likeliness that this core set up will remain. Therefore, a plan of action should be in place, and if AX does not or will not set one, then it's up to us to come up with one.

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Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
Exactly what do you want AX Staff to do when you're outside of the convention space? If you're that concerned about being harassed at the hotel, then stay at the Westin Bonaventure where most AX attendees stay at who will probably have your back and you can take a shuttle that takes you directly to the convention center. Or just don't go.
Well, I avoid the shuttled hotels since the quality of the shuttles has been scaled down on a year by year basis, and last year, there were comments that some people were left waiting over an hour for shuttles. Some were even bumped off shuttles to give staff priority, despite already waiting an amount of time. Now, with the potential detours that the shuttles can be making if the rally is in the same place as last year, that could be a level of frustration that can just ruin a convention experience.

And "don't go" isn't quite an option since I have a block of rooms and people are signing up very quickly. Especially since a large amount of these people I know and are friends, I'm not going to leave them swinging in the wind.

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Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
It's funny to see that on the AX Forums, people are more embracing of the X-Games while that doesn't seem to be the case here.
Could you link to those threads, please? I could only find one locked thread on the issue.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 11:00 AM   #66
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http://community.anime-expo.org/inde...=&fromsearch=1

What I advocate is being as prepared as you would be in any unfamiliar area. I have two trips planned this year to foreign countries I've never been to before, and I'm gonna prepare the same way I would for AX. Be aware of your surroundings, look at maps, plan travel routes, know emergency numbers and taxi numbers, don't do anything that could garner unwanted attention (like brandishing a prop weapon at someone who might not be familiar with what you're doing). No one can control the actions of people they don't know, but you can always control your own response to a situation. I never will start a fight (fights are only started by those who think they can win), but I will do what I can to end it quickly. If people aren't following the basic tips in the link I posted in a last post anytime outside of a convention, then the chances of getting stuck in a bad situation will always be high no matter where one goes.

There's always stuff to worry about. Worry can only cripple you if you don't make plans and believe you should rely wholly on event organizers to think of everything for you. You just can't buy a badge and book a room and say you're ready. If I did that, I'd probably have wasted a lot of time and money on every vacation I've been on.

Remember that it isn't only AX that will be affected this year. Local bus service, nearby businesses, hotels, and residential buildings will also be affected. So all parties have to come to the table in order to make this weekend as pleasant as possible for all.

And in terms of lack of preparedness, I would think AX is probably a little more prepared at this point since they've been selling badges for almost a year already and have a rough headcount. ESPN won't start selling tickets until next month. I'm sure at this point, both parties have started discussions about the scheduling of both events on the same weekend.

Another way of looking at this is it was known since September that the X-Games were returning to L.A. You too also had time to back out if you believed that it would be a problem.

Rereading this thread, I notice the concern about alcohol...Alcohol's always been available at L.A. Live even when there's no event. It's been available at Staples Center during the WNBA game and NKOTB/BSB concert. Meet and greets are planned at bars among the 21+ attendees on the AX forums every year. And I'm sure people bring their own to the hotels.

After reading the "Is Dragon*Con Broken?" article (which seems to me contains a little discriminatory language to perceived non-fans), especially the comments section, it seems to me a lot of what happened there was a lack of professional help for the con organizers especially with access control to the con as it was held at the hotels, which is not the case with the LACC and its roving band of badge checkers even at the front door.

It's sounding like your biggest fear is outside of the L.A. Convention Center. If you're having trouble at the hotel with rowdy hotel guests not part of a particular event, you call the Front Desk, not convention organizers. If you're having trouble with someone while walking down the street to get to/from the con, you keep walking or try to get help from the nearest person who can help you.

You're never going to be in a hotel or public space outside of the L.A. Convention Center that is 100% full of fans (and even in the LACC you'll meet people who hate your particular fandom), so you'll just have to deal with the fact that you will meet people who may have strong opinions that are different from yours, just like real life. You can either get yourself drawn into the other person's provocation and end up in a fight, or walk away. Basic rules of self-defense 1) Don't fight 2) If you can't get out of a fight, fight to win. And most people will follow rule 1.

I apologize if this post doesn't seem well written as I've been editing a couple times, but I am really not a fan of people who are too afraid of encountering different people to the point that they feel that it's management's responsibility to ensure that attendees to different events must be kept isolated from each other.

There are a lot more things to worry about than getting picked on by a bunch of drunks:

-murder of two students near the USC campus down the street a few weeks ago
-school teachers being arrested for lewd conduct with students
-earthquakes
-car accidents
-random crimes that can happen anywhere and anytime

Again, if you're not practicing basic safety tips and being aware of your surroundings when you're not at AX, then there really is no hope for you when you'll be traveling the same routes as fans of other events.

If you're coming from a place that is really 100% safe from taunts and harassment, good for you as that is not what the rest of the world is like.

If you haven't felt a little worry in everyday life, then you've never learned to adapt to bad situations in the first place.

If your friends have never learned how to deal with the possibility of criticism or harassment, then they should learn before even coming.

Last edited by amateur cameko : 04-22-2012 at 12:35 PM. Reason: More commentary
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Unread 04-22-2012, 11:56 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
It's funny to see that on the AX Forums, people are more embracing of the X-Games while that doesn't seem to be the case here.
So a single thread with eight posts is "funny" compared to the ongoing discussion here. Okay then.

It should be obvious since this is on a cosplay forum that many of the concerns stated here are from those who would want to cosplay at AX. Fact is, the X-Games will bring in at least 3-to-4 times the number of people into that area than who would normally be there for just AX. Leaving concerns over behavior aside, that's a logistical nightmare. Traffic, both foot and vehicle, will be insane. You are right in that we can't expect AX to protect anyone outside the convention area, but what we're missing here is any sense of how AX would work around the X-Games.

We still don't know where shuttles are going to drop off at the LACC. We still don't know what foot paths guests of the closest hotels are supposed to use. We still don't know if the entrances at both West Hall and South Hall will be usable. We still don't know what outdoor areas will be available for cosplay gatherings. As I've said, I'm not so concerned with being near sports fans, my concern is not knowing how this event is supposed to function, especially for people like me for whom cosplay is the main reason to go.

And you're right, we don't have to go at all if this concerns us so much, which I'm certainly considering. I just hope AX answers our concerns as best they can. But the longer they stay quiet, the more it looks to me like they're doing their best to hide the X-Games and the hassles they will bring from unaware AX attendees for as long as possible.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 12:25 PM   #68
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After reading this entire thread, it sounds to me as though you are dismissing or misunderstanding our concerns.

So far, you have no real information for us yet you continue to post as though you know something and are unwilling to tell us.

When AX happens, I will be 8 months pregnant. Will there be a straight path to the convention center or will I have to walk round about to get to the dealers hall or cosplay gatherings? I have been going to AX since 2003 and it is not in my plans to stop going. I, for one, would like to know if I have to walk out of my way to get to the convention center. Because at 8 months pregnant, I would not be thrilled to have to walk 5 blocks away from the JW Marriott to get to the convention center because AX was unable to provide a straight course past the Staples Center. And no, I am not going to cram myself onto the sad little yellow school bus to drive a block and a half.

And what about parents who are unaware of the happenings going on in the area because their offspring are unaware? This is due to the lack of any information coming from AX management regarding the issues. They cannot leave everything to their convention goers, as that would be irresponsible of management.

Are you a member of AX management, a volunteer, or are you an attendee? This is not meant to be a confrontational question. I merely want to know. If you are AX management or a volunteer, then your lack of concern over our questions reflects poorly on the institution you represent.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 12:48 PM   #69
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Since I don't have kids, I may not totally familiar with parents' concerns, but years working at a water park has made me wary of any parent willing to just drop off their minor child at a place where there will be a wide variety of people. It is not AX's job to babysit kids.

I don't work on AX Staff, but have attended every AX that's been held in L.A., and I've lived in L.A. for years before that. I find it really ridiculous to assume that attendees of two different events can't be in the same area at the same time. Talk of who to sue when no facts have been presented as to event scheduling for either event is really nonproductive.

These are the only known facts from official websites:
AX and X-Games are being held on the same weekend
AX is being held in the L.A. Convention Center
AX has been selling badges since the end of the previous AX (if not earlier)
X-Games announced ticket pre-sales will start May 21
X-Games has not announced where in L.A. events will be held (of if they're gonna be like Arte Moreno with the Angels and actually hold it in Anaheim but call it L.A.).

If X-Games can wait a month before the event to even start selling tickets to fans with much less information (ticket prices for X-Games hasn't even been announced), I think we as con goers can also practice a little patience. I also am not sure what value there is to know road closures and traffic rerouting this far in advance. I'm not even thinking about the public transportation routes I need to take on one of my overseas trips until 3 weeks before I leave as things may change until the last minute. It shouldn't take weeks to plan one's walking route from point A to point B.

There are some reasonable concerns about maneuverability, but two months is still a little bit far too early to worry about this level of detail planning (on the attendee's side) when the other event hasn't even made any official announcements about venue locations or even started selling tickets yet. I've worked at several marathons, and I didn't even know what roads will be closed until three weeks before the event (even only one week when I worked at the L.A. Marathon).

And as for sharing a space with people coming for different reasons, as one commented in the Dragon*Con article "We’re just going to have to deal with that." Same is true when you're a fan of a visiting team or being a foreigner in an area of the country normally frequented by locals.

Anyway, that's all I really have to say for now until I see actual programming schedules for both AX and X-Games. I know I would like to get tickets to X-Games if they are actually going to be held nearby.

Last edited by amateur cameko : 04-22-2012 at 01:45 PM. Reason: More commentary
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Unread 04-22-2012, 06:24 PM   #70
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I think we're getting worked up over some minor issues where the real issue is mainly that of access but even that not this great lock down as some suggest. At best it be like AX10 with the World cup where we had those douches with the vuvula's blasting them all night and day and annoying the hell out of us. The streets being closed off is to traffic as they still have their own crowd who needs to mill around so they won't shoot themselves in the foot by making it a cluster*beep* to move from one side of the area to another. If you're driving, yeah minor pain in your ass. For us already there AXer's not so much.
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Unread 04-22-2012, 10:16 PM   #71
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^THIS.
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Can't count how many times one was blown into my ear or face when I was trying to nap in the long lines.
So glad that those are gone.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 12:26 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
Since I don't have kids, I may not totally familiar with parents' concerns, but years working at a water park has made me wary of any parent willing to just drop off their minor child at a place where there will be a wide variety of people. It is not AX's job to babysit kids.
However, providing a full picture of logistical information is AX's job. Water parks don't have massive changes to their structure because of someone else taking over a large amount of the square footage it usually inhabits. To use your vacation analogy, yes, you study maps of where you're going. However, those maps don't include blurbs that state, "There's something probably going on over here, but we have no idea of what's going to happen, so just plan on walking through anyway."

Quote:
Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
I don't work on AX Staff, but have attended every AX that's been held in L.A., and I've lived in L.A. for years before that. I find it really ridiculous to assume that attendees of two different events can't be in the same area at the same time. Talk of who to sue when no facts have been presented as to event scheduling for either event is really nonproductive.
This is all conversation coming because we don't have the information we need to plan. I've been in attendance of 18 out of 21 Anime Expos, and this is new territory when the AX isn't in control of the hotel and/or area its inhabiting, and while they may not think that's too big of a deal, it's a concern when we don't know where exactly to go to get around what's happening in the area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
These are the only known facts from official websites:
AX and X-Games are being held on the same weekend
AX is being held in the L.A. Convention Center
AX has been selling badges since the end of the previous AX (if not earlier)
X-Games announced ticket pre-sales will start May 21
X-Games has not announced where in L.A. events will be held (of if they're gonna be like Arte Moreno with the Angels and actually hold it in Anaheim but call it L.A.).
However, we can figure out that since ESPN has a vested interest in the area, and they have a broadcast studio on top of the ESPN Zone at L.A. Live, then logistically, it makes a lot of sense for them to stay put. We also know that since L.A. Live opened, that's where the Summer X-Games have taken place with the only variation being the location of the rally in the last two years. Additionally, standard business practice is to provide the most for your customer at the lowest cost reasonably necessary. Under that scenario, then there's no reason for the rally to move since AEG has a vested interest in keeping as much as possible nearby to drive ticket sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
If X-Games can wait a month before the event to even start selling tickets to fans with much less information (ticket prices for X-Games hasn't even been announced), I think we as con goers can also practice a little patience. I also am not sure what value there is to know road closures and traffic rerouting this far in advance. I'm not even thinking about the public transportation routes I need to take on one of my overseas trips until 3 weeks before I leave as things may change until the last minute. It shouldn't take weeks to plan one's walking route from point A to point B.
I think four months is a lot of time to pass with no information. Especially when there's only 2 months to go and you need to pass that information on to 30,000 to 40,000 people. Also, when there's 200,000 extra people to inhabit a one-mile strip of an area, then traffic routes are necessary when you are talking about an area that already sees a serious amount of traffic, and there can be even more pressure when there's word of construction to start at L.A. Live in June or July if AEG has its way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
There are some reasonable concerns about maneuverability, but two months is still a little bit far too early to worry about this level of detail planning (on the attendee's side) when the other event hasn't even made any official announcements about venue locations or even started selling tickets yet. I've worked at several marathons, and I didn't even know what roads will be closed until three weeks before the event (even only one week when I worked at the L.A. Marathon).
There is a difference when you're talking about marathons which generally have pre-set routes. There's not as much logistical planning involved. However, when the L.A. Marathon announced its route change, they did it six months in advance of the next year. That's an example of excellent communication since they have to reach a large amount of people.

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And as for sharing a space with people coming for different reasons, as one commented in the Dragon*Con article "We’re just going to have to deal with that." Same is true when you're a fan of a visiting team or being a foreigner in an area of the country normally frequented by locals.

Anyway, that's all I really have to say for now until I see actual programming schedules for both AX and X-Games. I know I would like to get tickets to X-Games if they are actually going to be held nearby.
Dragon*Con didn't "just deal with it." They changed a lot after that incident by changing their guest structure, increasing security, and keeping communication open with their patrons. They adapted.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 12:28 AM   #73
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I think we're getting worked up over some minor issues where the real issue is mainly that of access but even that not this great lock down as some suggest. At best it be like AX10 with the World cup where we had those douches with the vuvula's blasting them all night and day and annoying the hell out of us. The streets being closed off is to traffic as they still have their own crowd who needs to mill around so they won't shoot themselves in the foot by making it a cluster*beep* to move from one side of the area to another. If you're driving, yeah minor pain in your ass. For us already there AXer's not so much.
Do you happen to know about how to move through all of this? The X-Games Maps for 2010 and 2011 have Entrances blocking the L.A. Live Plaza, both ends of Chick Hearns St. by the Convention Center, and the street next to the Marriott. If these are gated entrances, then we have to go around.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 08:02 AM   #74
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Also, when there's 200,000 extra people to inhabit a one-mile strip of an area, then traffic routes are necessary when you are talking about an area that already sees a serious amount of traffic.
Yeah...there's already 100,000+ people that inhabit the Coliseum or The Rose Bowl almost every Saturday during college football season, making it a pain to get on the 110 or out of Pasadena. I'm pretty sure large venue operators know how to accommodate large groups of people coming from all over the place.

Seriously, calm down. Practice a little patience and don't make assumptions about sports fans and sporting events. I've been to many sports events, and drunks are such a tiny, tiny, tiny group.

And if you still believe this year's X-Games will be exactly the same as last year (despite the fact that no information has been presented about this year's X-Games venues has been posted yet), here's a commuter map . And if you are really worried about dealing with X-Games fans walking down the street, then take Hope St. If you can't walk 1 mile (which is the distance from JW Marriott to South Hall from several routes I looked at), then there are other other things you probably need to deal with before worrying about coming here.

And stop trying to compare Dragon*Con to AX. I saw a lot of comments on that Dragon*Con blog post already saying that one shouldn't compare it to Comic Con, so I see no point trying to compare it to AX. L.A. is different from Atlanta. X-Games fans are different from college football fans.

I'm done talking on this thread. I find that I can't convince anyone here to have a little patience or learn to adapt themselves.

Last edited by amateur cameko : 04-23-2012 at 08:10 AM.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 10:12 AM   #75
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Jw one mile? Dude it's only 2 blocks from south hall
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