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Unread 06-20-2012, 02:59 PM   #796
MikaMrello
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Alright, I just have one question. You can go into the main hall without a badge, right? just not go into certain areas or the exhibition hall.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 03:13 PM   #797
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Alright, I just have one question. You can go into the main hall without a badge, right? just not go into certain areas or the exhibition hall.
Wait...Are you talking about "Ghosting"? (The act of showing up, and hanging around the convention center without intending to buy a badge during the convention.)
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Unread 06-20-2012, 03:16 PM   #798
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Originally Posted by MikaMrello View Post
Alright, I just have one question. You can go into the main hall without a badge, right? just not go into certain areas or the exhibition hall.
In the past you can. Now to keep X-Games attendees from swarming inside, there may be badge checks, particularly in the West Hall. Ideally they won't bother you if you aren't causing a ruckus, but you never know. You might have to enter via one of the back entrances if you can't get in. ^^;
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Unread 06-20-2012, 03:28 PM   #799
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In the past you can. Now to keep X-Games attendees from swarming inside, there may be badge checks, particularly in the West Hall. Ideally they won't bother you if you aren't causing a ruckus, but you never know. You might have to enter via one of the back entrances if you can't get in. ^^;
Ideally, it is even better not to do it in the first place.

If you can't afford to go, don't go.

"Ghosting" means that a non paying person is just taking up space that another paying customer could have used. (Especially this year, when space is at a serious premium.)

"Ghosting" also means AX loses more money. (Don't forget that AX is in a serious financial crisis right now.)

In short, "Ghosting" means a person is trying to get into the convention and enjoy AX for FREE.

Last edited by Hakaider : 06-20-2012 at 03:34 PM.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 03:42 PM   #800
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Finally some clarification on how AX is using the LACC and that person that posted pics of the setup is awesome....it's a rough taste of what it's going to be like (nightmare). I agree with Hakaider and anyone else that hasn't drank the kool aid that it's really sad that attendees have had to dig up this info on their own and that SPJA has kept us in the dark. I suspect that that might be brought up in the con gripe panel on Day 4 (if they don't remove it from the schedule because they don't want to hear our gripes...wouldn't surprise me)
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Unread 06-20-2012, 03:50 PM   #801
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Originally Posted by Hakaider View Post
Ideally, it is even better not to do it in the first place.

If you can't afford to go, don't go.

"Ghosting" means you are just taking up space that another paying customer could have used. (Especially this year when space is at serious premium.)

"Ghosting" also means AX loses money. (Don't forget that AX is in a serious financial crisis right now.)

In short, "Ghosting" means a person is trying to get into the convention and enjoy AX for FREE.
I see your point.
I personally think it's not so black and white. I've known people who would get a hotel room, but not a pass to the convention--solely to hang out with friends (usually the ones who booked the room+have badges). You may disagree with me here, but if they're not interested in anything else at AX, why not? Apart from the convention space outside the rooms, they're not displacing people from autograph lines or panels or concerts or what have you.

At conventions, I see people genuinely curious about this anime con going on, and I delight in informing them about it. They'll wander around inside a bit, take pictures, and it'll probably be the highlight of their day. (Or excessively worry about the invasion of nerds or something)

Even if the ghosting increased the actual attendance by as much as 10% (I don't think it'll ever be that high a figure), I think the convention center can still easily handle the extra traffic. Even if the outside of the west hall is blocked off.

Of course, AX should denounce and never appear to support such activities, but this is my perspective as an attendee.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 04:03 PM   #802
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If I may ask, what happened to your panel?
It was rejected. (T_T)

It was going to be "Evangelion and Psychology: An Open Forum and Roundtable Discussion". It was supposed to be an open discussion about the Evangelion franchise and the (obvious) influences from the field of psychology. I wanted to give fans of the series a chance to express and share their knowledge about whatever psych aspects they know of and apply that towards understanding the series a little better. (And maybe attract someone towards that particular field of study.

I was going to lead discussion by giving a short 10-15min. introductory PowerPoint presentation and offering talking points for the remainder of the panel. I was also going to offer my perspective as a student nurse, sharing whatever I knew about modern clinical psychiatry, mental growth and development, and my experiences working at a psych/mental health unit.

But since that was thrown out, I guess I'll just focus on perfecting my Masquerade skit. Maybe at another con...(-3-)
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Unread 06-20-2012, 04:05 PM   #803
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Originally Posted by SleepyD View Post
The X-Fest, according to ESPN, is "Free and open to the public" so getting to the West Hall entrance via Georgia St (well technically, to the side of Georgia St) and around the Staples Center should be OK.

In other words, those yellow arrows you see on the map are OK for the public to traverse.

Any alternate routes would take you around:

Going west will be via LA Live Way (Formerly Cherry St) and then left on Pico to the West Hall back entrances or down further to the South Hall main entrance.

Going around the east will require you get on Flower and go south all the way to Pico, before making a right turn to the South Hall entrance.
Are you sure about the yellow arrows? The way I read that is "this is how to travel to get to L.A. Live and/or the X-Games." The arrows all seem to point through "Entrances" in the green sections, which I believe are the ticketed sections of the X-Games, not the X-Fest area in pink.

I'm trying to be sure since I'm staying at the J.W. Marriott.

Also, the X-Fest doesn't seem to stretch from the street to the West Hall Entrance. Will we be allowed to at least traverse the area between the LACC and the Staples Center?

As far as ghosting, I'm of mixed feelings about it.

If someone happens by and wants to know more about what's going on, that's curiosity and no fanbase can expand by ostracizing such people, obviously.

However, to purposefully not pay for a badge and just hang out? I don't completely understand that. When you do that, the convention makes nothing, the vendors make nothing, the panels don't have a chance to expand their message, and I've spent the money for a hotel stay that I could have used on Amazon.com to buy more anime, figurines, costuming goods, etc.

I can hang out more easily at home with a group of friends, or use that money to travel and see more of them, than ghosting.

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Originally Posted by animegamer057 View Post
It was rejected. (T_T)

It was going to be "Evangelion and Psychology: An Open Forum and Roundtable Discussion". It was supposed to be an open discussion about the Evangelion franchise and the (obvious) influences from the field of psychology. I wanted to give fans of the series a chance to express and share their knowledge about whatever psych aspects they know of and apply that towards understanding the series a little better. (And maybe attract someone towards that particular field of study.

I was going to lead discussion by giving a short 10-15min. introductory PowerPoint presentation and offering talking points for the remainder of the panel. I was also going to offer my perspective as a student nurse, sharing whatever I knew about modern clinical psychiatry, mental growth and development, and my experiences working at a psych/mental health unit.

But since that was thrown out, I guess I'll just focus on perfecting my Masquerade skit. Maybe at another con...(-3-)
...

So... the CEO gets to tell jokes rather than you using anime to further a progressive intelligent discussion of an anime as a window into psycosis and its potential effects...

Makes about as much sense as anything else this year.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 04:23 PM   #804
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In the past, ghosting has been as high as 15%. In 2011 the numbers dropped significantly due to the offering of an exhibit-hall only pass for $10/day or $25/all days.

Most people who ghosted were locals who didn't need a hotel room, only planned on cosplay gatherings and hanging out with friends and such.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 04:27 PM   #805
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Originally Posted by Freight View Post
Are you sure about the yellow arrows? The way I read that is "this is how to travel to get to L.A. Live and/or the X-Games." The arrows all seem to point through "Entrances" in the green sections, which I believe are the ticketed sections of the X-Games, not the X-Fest area in pink.

I'm trying to be sure since I'm staying at the J.W. Marriott.

Also, the X-Fest doesn't seem to stretch from the street to the West Hall Entrance. Will we be allowed to at least traverse the area between the LACC and the Staples Center?
The arrows certainly do point to the "Entrances", and I agree, apart from the X-Fest entrances, these are ticketed events. To me, that tells me tickets are checked at these entrances, and therefore, the pathways used to get to the entrances won't be checked for tickets. Particularly since the X-Fest won't require tickets, as people still need to enter the green areas to get there.

I'm sorry to be confusing at that point, I didn't mean people would have to traverse the X-Fest to get to the LACC.

Edit: AAAAAAAH I think I get it!
Places marked exit will delineate where we can go!
You can see it better here -- http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0530...0Map_draft.pdf

So you CAN walk up to the West Hall from the north side using the Yellow arrows. But if I were to assume that the "Entrance" at the staples center location also blocks access to the south, the pedestrian bridge is not accessible by AX attendees (definitely on Day 3, Sunday, during the Rally Events. Not sure about other days). It makes more sense this way, imo.

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As far as ghosting, I'm of mixed feelings about it.

If someone happens by and wants to know more about what's going on, that's curiosity and no fanbase can expand by ostracizing such people, obviously.

However, to purposefully not pay for a badge and just hang out? I don't completely understand that. When you do that, the convention makes nothing, the vendors make nothing, the panels don't have a chance to expand their message, and I've spent the money for a hotel stay that I could have used on Amazon.com to buy more anime, figurines, costuming goods, etc.

I can hang out more easily at home with a group of friends, or use that money to travel and see more of them, than ghosting.
haha, yeah...
I personally have never "ghosted" but I have made a lot of online friends located ALL OVER the continent (Canada, East Coast, Midwest, etc etc), and AX is pretty much the only time I can get to meet them all together in one place. Money for the hotel room will not cover the travel expenses to visit them all. To me, AX's ability to get a group of friends together is unparalleled. For someone extremely short on money, I can completely understand that reasoning for ghosting.

Granted, I recognize I'm a special case, but I thought I'd put that out there.
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Last edited by SleepyD : 06-20-2012 at 04:49 PM. Reason: AAAAAAAH I think I get it!
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Unread 06-20-2012, 05:05 PM   #806
Hakaider
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As far as ghosting, I'm of mixed feelings about it.

If someone happens by and wants to know more about what's going on, that's curiosity and no fanbase can expand by ostracizing such people, obviously.

However, to purposefully not pay for a badge and just hang out? I don't completely understand that. When you do that, the convention makes nothing, the vendors make nothing, the panels don't have a chance to expand their message, and I've spent the money for a hotel stay that I could have used on Amazon.com to buy more anime, figurines, costuming goods, etc.

I can hang out more easily at home with a group of friends, or use that money to travel and see more of them, than ghosting.

I agree. I don't think too many people would object if the person who comes in out of curiosity, and just wanted to check things out.

But that's a big difference from a person who deliberately & willfully refuses to pay a single cent for a badge, and wants to enjoy AX for FREE. When people do that, it hurts both the paying customers and AX in the long run financially.


Quote:
It was going to be "Evangelion and Psychology: An Open Forum and Roundtable Discussion". It was supposed to be an open discussion about the Evangelion franchise and the (obvious) influences from the field of psychology. I wanted to give fans of the series a chance to express and share their knowledge about whatever psych aspects they know of and apply that towards understanding the series a little better. (And maybe attract someone towards that particular field of study.

I was going to lead discussion by giving a short 10-15min. introductory PowerPoint presentation and offering talking points for the remainder of the panel. I was also going to offer my perspective as a student nurse, sharing whatever I knew about modern clinical psychiatry, mental growth and development, and my experiences working at a psych/mental health unit.

But since that was thrown out, I guess I'll just focus on perfecting my Masquerade skit. Maybe at another con...(-3-)
It's too bad that got thrown out. That would have been a very interesting panel.


Quote:
So... the CEO gets to tell jokes rather than you using anime to further a progressive intelligent discussion of an anime as a window into psycosis and its potential effects...

Makes about as much sense as anything else this year.

Yup. The CEO's bad jokes always take top priority over the fan panels. Yup. That makes total sense.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 05:14 PM   #807
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Personally, I would have something against ghosting IF SPJA/AX was good stewards with the money they made from membership. But as I can show otherwise, I really don't have anything against people who do it.

For a verifiable example of this, see:
http://www.tomcroom.com/?tag=florida-anime
The law firm discussed in this article:
http://www.osrfirm.com/
The 2010 Form 990 for Anime Expo:
http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_...01012_990O.pdf
see page 8: Section B. part 1 (Independent contractors)
Oliver & SABEC / LEGAL SERVICES / $391,158.00

Total revenue from membership and the dealers hall is roughly $2,200,000.00
In other words, more than 15% of the revenue was spent on that little episode (and/or related).

If you look on page 7, the CEO was paid $116,749. for a 20-hour work week, and he left in September of that year. Roughly 4% of the revenue brought in by the con.


Once they learn to be good stewards with the money the con brings in, then we can think about whether ghosting and all those things are moral/right or not...

"Yup. The CEO's bad jokes always take top priority over the fan panels. Yup. That makes total sense."
Exactly. Don't forget to ask about the sandwiches and how many staff members they can stuff into a hotel room.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 05:21 PM   #808
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I agree. I don't think too many people would object if the person who comes in out of curiosity, and just wanted to check things out.

But that's a big difference from a person who deliberately & willfully refuses to pay a single cent for a badge, and wants to enjoy AX for FREE. When people do that, it hurts both the paying customers and AX in the long run financially.
The problem is, to allow one means to allow the other. I'll be difficult to enforce. Especially given what AX has for manpower. If they tried, I imagine a bunch of people will cry foul at how inconsistent they were in catching the ghosters.


Although I'm starting to think this should be in another thread, so I'll stop here.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 05:28 PM   #809
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If you look on page 7, the CEO was paid $116,749. for a 20-hour work week, and he left in September of that year. Roughly 4% of the revenue brought in by the con.
Wait. That's for Lattanzio, right?


Quote:
Exactly. Don't forget to ask about the sandwiches and how many staff members they can stuff into a hotel room.
Are you kidding? The fan asking that question will get thrown out of the panel before that person could even finish the word, "sandwich". (They are supposed to shut up, laugh, cheer & clap like trained seals.)

And if they are very lucky, they'll get thrown out by Ren-tan or Peter Ngo. (Hey, unlike the CEO, I'm entitled to one "bad joke" for the day. O.K. maybe two.)

Last edited by Hakaider : 06-20-2012 at 05:44 PM.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 05:38 PM   #810
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The problem is, to allow one means to allow the other. I'll be difficult to enforce. Especially given what AX has for manpower. If they tried, I imagine a bunch of people will cry foul at how inconsistent they were in catching the ghosters.


Although I'm starting to think this should be in another thread, so I'll stop here.
No, discussion is good. I encourage you to continue. I may not agree, but this is interesting, and we're learning something else about conventions that we're not likely to get from the powers-that-be.

Wouldn't ghosting be a little easier to figure out when someone comes in befuddled and someone else without a badge strolls through with purpose or with a costume on?
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