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Unread 06-20-2012, 05:23 PM   #811
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In the past, ghosting has been as high as 15%. In 2011 the numbers dropped significantly due to the offering of an exhibit-hall only pass for $10/day or $25/all days.

Most people who ghosted were locals who didn't need a hotel room, only planned on cosplay gatherings and hanging out with friends and such.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 05:27 PM   #812
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Originally Posted by Freight View Post
Are you sure about the yellow arrows? The way I read that is "this is how to travel to get to L.A. Live and/or the X-Games." The arrows all seem to point through "Entrances" in the green sections, which I believe are the ticketed sections of the X-Games, not the X-Fest area in pink.

I'm trying to be sure since I'm staying at the J.W. Marriott.

Also, the X-Fest doesn't seem to stretch from the street to the West Hall Entrance. Will we be allowed to at least traverse the area between the LACC and the Staples Center?
The arrows certainly do point to the "Entrances", and I agree, apart from the X-Fest entrances, these are ticketed events. To me, that tells me tickets are checked at these entrances, and therefore, the pathways used to get to the entrances won't be checked for tickets. Particularly since the X-Fest won't require tickets, as people still need to enter the green areas to get there.

I'm sorry to be confusing at that point, I didn't mean people would have to traverse the X-Fest to get to the LACC.

Edit: AAAAAAAH I think I get it!
Places marked exit will delineate where we can go!
You can see it better here -- http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0530...0Map_draft.pdf

So you CAN walk up to the West Hall from the north side using the Yellow arrows. But if I were to assume that the "Entrance" at the staples center location also blocks access to the south, the pedestrian bridge is not accessible by AX attendees (definitely on Day 3, Sunday, during the Rally Events. Not sure about other days). It makes more sense this way, imo.

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As far as ghosting, I'm of mixed feelings about it.

If someone happens by and wants to know more about what's going on, that's curiosity and no fanbase can expand by ostracizing such people, obviously.

However, to purposefully not pay for a badge and just hang out? I don't completely understand that. When you do that, the convention makes nothing, the vendors make nothing, the panels don't have a chance to expand their message, and I've spent the money for a hotel stay that I could have used on Amazon.com to buy more anime, figurines, costuming goods, etc.

I can hang out more easily at home with a group of friends, or use that money to travel and see more of them, than ghosting.
haha, yeah...
I personally have never "ghosted" but I have made a lot of online friends located ALL OVER the continent (Canada, East Coast, Midwest, etc etc), and AX is pretty much the only time I can get to meet them all together in one place. Money for the hotel room will not cover the travel expenses to visit them all. To me, AX's ability to get a group of friends together is unparalleled. For someone extremely short on money, I can completely understand that reasoning for ghosting.

Granted, I recognize I'm a special case, but I thought I'd put that out there.
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Last edited by SleepyD : 06-20-2012 at 05:49 PM. Reason: AAAAAAAH I think I get it!
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Unread 06-20-2012, 06:05 PM   #813
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As far as ghosting, I'm of mixed feelings about it.

If someone happens by and wants to know more about what's going on, that's curiosity and no fanbase can expand by ostracizing such people, obviously.

However, to purposefully not pay for a badge and just hang out? I don't completely understand that. When you do that, the convention makes nothing, the vendors make nothing, the panels don't have a chance to expand their message, and I've spent the money for a hotel stay that I could have used on Amazon.com to buy more anime, figurines, costuming goods, etc.

I can hang out more easily at home with a group of friends, or use that money to travel and see more of them, than ghosting.

I agree. I don't think too many people would object if the person who comes in out of curiosity, and just wanted to check things out.

But that's a big difference from a person who deliberately & willfully refuses to pay a single cent for a badge, and wants to enjoy AX for FREE. When people do that, it hurts both the paying customers and AX in the long run financially.


Quote:
It was going to be "Evangelion and Psychology: An Open Forum and Roundtable Discussion". It was supposed to be an open discussion about the Evangelion franchise and the (obvious) influences from the field of psychology. I wanted to give fans of the series a chance to express and share their knowledge about whatever psych aspects they know of and apply that towards understanding the series a little better. (And maybe attract someone towards that particular field of study.

I was going to lead discussion by giving a short 10-15min. introductory PowerPoint presentation and offering talking points for the remainder of the panel. I was also going to offer my perspective as a student nurse, sharing whatever I knew about modern clinical psychiatry, mental growth and development, and my experiences working at a psych/mental health unit.

But since that was thrown out, I guess I'll just focus on perfecting my Masquerade skit. Maybe at another con...(-3-)
It's too bad that got thrown out. That would have been a very interesting panel.


Quote:
So... the CEO gets to tell jokes rather than you using anime to further a progressive intelligent discussion of an anime as a window into psycosis and its potential effects...

Makes about as much sense as anything else this year.

Yup. The CEO's bad jokes always take top priority over the fan panels. Yup. That makes total sense.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 06:14 PM   #814
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Personally, I would have something against ghosting IF SPJA/AX was good stewards with the money they made from membership. But as I can show otherwise, I really don't have anything against people who do it.

For a verifiable example of this, see:
http://www.tomcroom.com/?tag=florida-anime
The law firm discussed in this article:
http://www.osrfirm.com/
The 2010 Form 990 for Anime Expo:
http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_...01012_990O.pdf
see page 8: Section B. part 1 (Independent contractors)
Oliver & SABEC / LEGAL SERVICES / $391,158.00

Total revenue from membership and the dealers hall is roughly $2,200,000.00
In other words, more than 15% of the revenue was spent on that little episode (and/or related).

If you look on page 7, the CEO was paid $116,749. for a 20-hour work week, and he left in September of that year. Roughly 4% of the revenue brought in by the con.


Once they learn to be good stewards with the money the con brings in, then we can think about whether ghosting and all those things are moral/right or not...

"Yup. The CEO's bad jokes always take top priority over the fan panels. Yup. That makes total sense."
Exactly. Don't forget to ask about the sandwiches and how many staff members they can stuff into a hotel room.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 06:21 PM   #815
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Originally Posted by Hakaider View Post
I agree. I don't think too many people would object if the person who comes in out of curiosity, and just wanted to check things out.

But that's a big difference from a person who deliberately & willfully refuses to pay a single cent for a badge, and wants to enjoy AX for FREE. When people do that, it hurts both the paying customers and AX in the long run financially.
The problem is, to allow one means to allow the other. I'll be difficult to enforce. Especially given what AX has for manpower. If they tried, I imagine a bunch of people will cry foul at how inconsistent they were in catching the ghosters.


Although I'm starting to think this should be in another thread, so I'll stop here.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 06:28 PM   #816
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If you look on page 7, the CEO was paid $116,749. for a 20-hour work week, and he left in September of that year. Roughly 4% of the revenue brought in by the con.
Wait. That's for Lattanzio, right?


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Exactly. Don't forget to ask about the sandwiches and how many staff members they can stuff into a hotel room.
Are you kidding? The fan asking that question will get thrown out of the panel before that person could even finish the word, "sandwich". (They are supposed to shut up, laugh, cheer & clap like trained seals.)

And if they are very lucky, they'll get thrown out by Ren-tan or Peter Ngo. (Hey, unlike the CEO, I'm entitled to one "bad joke" for the day. O.K. maybe two.)

Last edited by Hakaider : 06-20-2012 at 06:44 PM.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 06:38 PM   #817
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Originally Posted by SleepyD View Post
The problem is, to allow one means to allow the other. I'll be difficult to enforce. Especially given what AX has for manpower. If they tried, I imagine a bunch of people will cry foul at how inconsistent they were in catching the ghosters.


Although I'm starting to think this should be in another thread, so I'll stop here.
No, discussion is good. I encourage you to continue. I may not agree, but this is interesting, and we're learning something else about conventions that we're not likely to get from the powers-that-be.

Wouldn't ghosting be a little easier to figure out when someone comes in befuddled and someone else without a badge strolls through with purpose or with a costume on?
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Unread 06-20-2012, 07:32 PM   #818
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No, discussion is good. I encourage you to continue. I may not agree, but this is interesting, and we're learning something else about conventions that we're not likely to get from the powers-that-be.

Wouldn't ghosting be a little easier to figure out when someone comes in befuddled and someone else without a badge strolls through with purpose or with a costume on?
Well if you guys feel this is the appropriate thread for it, sure:

Some background on me: Again, I am not an AX staffer. Anything I say regarding the inner workings of AX are purely my own speculation. I am acquainted and friends with many of them; however, they are mostly lower-level staff. And I have staffed ALA, 3 years for ConOps, and last year for Artist Alley.

While it may seem easy to differentiate a cosplayer without a badge and a wide-eyed normal person, one will catch far more false positives than actual ghosters. Many cosplayers will hide their badge for photos and often forget to put them back in a viewable spot, for example. Usually they don't realize it until they need to enter a badge-only area.

This may be okay, but knowing how 3rd party security staff have acted in the past, they may come off as a bit too heavy-handed enforcing such a rule. Only AX staffers will probably recognize the difference properly. However, it seems to me AX is hinting at manpower/experience problems, and I would not trust the volunteers that show up at-con with little (if any) prior training with badge checking (aka interacting with people).

In a past thread, I remember discussing at length at how the customer service skills of at-con volunteers are completely unknown until the con, and how the customer service skills of stressed out AX staff will degrade as time goes on if they not trained to handle the stress (which can be caused by manpower problems, sudden schedule changes, etc -- which happens more often than it probably should).

In short, I don't trust the current AX staff to enforce such a policy without causing more damage to the currently tentative relationship between AX and its attendees.
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Last edited by SleepyD : 06-20-2012 at 07:36 PM.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 08:04 PM   #819
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Originally Posted by Access View Post
Personally, I would have something against ghosting IF SPJA/AX was good stewards with the money they made from membership. But as I can show otherwise, I really don't have anything against people who do it.

For a verifiable example of this, see:
http://www.tomcroom.com/?tag=florida-anime
The law firm discussed in this article:
http://www.osrfirm.com/
The 2010 Form 990 for Anime Expo:
http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_...01012_990O.pdf
see page 8: Section B. part 1 (Independent contractors)
Oliver & SABEC / LEGAL SERVICES / $391,158.00
W O W
I am speechless and amazed that a non-profit, "promote Japanese animation", organization is spending $390k, close to 20% of it's revenue, on a law firm that pulls this type of legal bullsh!t and bullying of other conventions. Looks like AX is the Monster Cable of the anime con world.

absolutely incredible. not even taking in account that they paid lattanzio a silly amount of money to wreck their organization's finances.

Last edited by dcpoor : 06-20-2012 at 08:08 PM.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 08:24 PM   #820
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W O W
I am speechless and amazed that a non-profit, "promote Japanese animation", organization is spending $390k, close to 20% of it's revenue, on a law firm that pulls this type of legal bullsh!t and bullying of other conventions. Looks like AX is the Monster Cable of the anime con world.

absolutely incredible. not even taking in account that they paid lattanzio a silly amount of money to wreck their organization's finances.
Call me all too nice and forgiving, but I'm of the belief that even though SPJA was the initial party that sent the info to the law firm, the law firm did not contact SPJA about their actions and subsequent events until people were all pissed off at AX already.

The law firm was just doing their job. I know in the USA, not enforcing a copyright will result in the loss of that copyright. (This is also partly why doujinshi isn't as popular here as it is in Japan). Not sure about trademarks though. Someone will have to fill me in there, since this was a trademark issue.

The firm was probably erring on the side of caution, but ended up screwing AX's reputation in the process.

Also, LAWYERS. Damn expensive, those things. I'm not surprised that's how much they ask for their services.
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Last edited by SleepyD : 06-20-2012 at 08:29 PM.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 08:37 PM   #821
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Call me all too nice and forgiving, but I'm of the belief that the law firm did not contact AX staff about this developing event until people were all pissed off at AX already.

The law firm was just doing their job, since not enforcing a copyright will result in the loss of that copyright. They were probably erring on the side of caution, but ended up screwing AX's reputation in the process.

Also, LAWYERS. Damn expensive, those things. I'm not surprised that's how much they ask for their services.
I think you are thinking trademark. Copyright is not like that. But honestly it's all beside the point. The point is the expense. It's one example of how money is wasted. And for what?

Just to put it in perspective, if you paid $50. for your badge, that means that around $10. went to that law firm to try to shut down or stop a convention with a similar sounding name on the opposite side of the US. Another $3 to $4 went to pay the CEO's salary. And so on. And that's just what we know, or what is publicly verifiable. But how much of that $50. goes to things we care about?

It doesn't 'come with the territory', you can check the balance sheets for the other large (more than 20,000 members) conventions and they don't seem to have these kinds of waste.

Last edited by Access : 06-20-2012 at 08:43 PM.
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Unread 06-20-2012, 08:52 PM   #822
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Quote:
For a verifiable example of this, see:
http://www.tomcroom.com/?tag=florida-anime
The law firm discussed in this article:
http://www.osrfirm.com/
The 2010 Form 990 for Anime Expo:
http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_...01012_990O.pdf
see page 8: Section B. part 1 (Independent contractors)
Oliver & SABEC / LEGAL SERVICES / $391,158.00

Total revenue from membership and the dealers hall is roughly $2,200,000.00
In other words, more than 15% of the revenue was spent on that little episode (and/or related).
Wait...in regards to AX's $391,158.00 dispute with the Florida anime convention, was that during Micheal Lattanzio's administration, or Marc Perez's administration?
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Unread 06-20-2012, 09:08 PM   #823
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Originally Posted by Access View Post
I think you are thinking trademark. Copyright is not like that. But honestly it's all beside the point. The point is the expense. It's one example of how money is wasted. And for what?

Just to put it in perspective, if you paid $50. for your badge, that means that around $10. went to that law firm to try to shut down or stop a convention with a similar sounding name on the opposite side of the US. Another $3 to $4 went to pay the CEO's salary. And so on. And that's just what we know, or what is publicly verifiable. But how much of that $50. goes to things we care about?

It doesn't 'come with the territory', you can check the balance sheets for the other large (more than 20,000 members) conventions and they don't seem to have these kinds of waste.
Yeah, I realized the TM/Copyright thing right after my post and edited my post.

I'm no lawyer. I hardly know anything about legal costs and everything, so I'll have to defer to someone else more knowledgeable. In that regard, I have a question: Is it possible that AX has found itself in a situation where potential legal liabilities could cause a law firm to charge more than normal?
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Unread 06-20-2012, 09:16 PM   #824
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Wait...in regards to AX's $391,158.00 dispute with the Florida anime convention, was that during Micheal Lattanzio's administration, or Marc Perez's administration?
Well this:
http://conventionfansblog.com/2010/1...er-anime-cons/
Was written in 10/28/2010
"Still ongoing..."

http://www.spja.org/news/?p=79
"is leaving on good terms" in 9/24/2010

"Is it possible that AX has found itself in a situation where potential legal liabilities could cause a law firm to charge more than normal?"
Yes, but not that law firm, you're probably thinking of a different episode.
Go back to the financial document I linked to earlier, see:
page 10, item 10b
page 10, item 24c
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Unread 06-20-2012, 09:22 PM   #825
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Well this:
http://conventionfansblog.com/2010/1...er-anime-cons/
Was written in 10/28/2010
"Still ongoing..."

http://www.spja.org/news/?p=79
"is leaving on good terms" in 9/24/2010

Ah. So the legal dispute happened a little after a month after Lattanzio had left, and Marc Perez had taken over.

I also loved how it was worded in the SPJA article:

Quote:
The SPJA thanks Lattanzio for his service and the growth Anime Expo enjoyed under Lattanzio’s stewardship.
Yeah, the "growth" was a $1.2 million debt. A "growth" in debt.

Last edited by Hakaider : 06-20-2012 at 09:29 PM.
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