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Unread 04-23-2012, 11:19 AM   #76
DarkCloudInc
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Originally Posted by Freight View Post
[...]But this is still an issue with the SPJA/IDG because they're not adapting to the new situation that creates safety issues.[...]
I'll leave out the other section since we won't ever come eye to eye on that. For now, we can speculate as much as we want and that will be all it will be, speculation. Poor communication doesn't equate to willful ignorance.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 12:43 PM   #77
Hakaider
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Yeah...there's already 100,000+ people that inhabit the Coliseum or The Rose Bowl almost every Saturday during college football season, making it a pain to get on the 110 or out of Pasadena. I'm pretty sure large venue operators know how to accommodate large groups of people coming from all over the place.

Yes, but the BIG difference here is that when they hold those games, it's not right next to an anime con or a sci-fi con. Historically, it has never been a good idea to mix the two groups together.

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And stop trying to compare Dragon*Con to AX. I saw a lot of comments on that Dragon*Con blog post already saying that one shouldn't compare it to Comic Con, so I see no point trying to compare it to AX. L.A. is different from Atlanta. X-Games fans are different from college football fans.
Actually, I've been to DragonCon and Atlanta. I've also been going AX off & on since since it opened in 1992. Having been to both AX & DragonCon, I would say that the only real difference is that DragonCon has a a far less restrictive weapons policy. Also I felt a lot a safer in Atlanta, than in LA. (The fans don't usually riot when their basketball team wins the NBA championship.)

DragonCon keeps repeating the same old mantra joke that they are not "Comic Con", because the emphasis is going to be on the fans, and not become a tradeshow like Comic Con. (They certainly aren't using that joke, because they are from Atlanta and Comic Con is on San Diego.)

Also, there were a number of fistfights at Comic Con as well in the past, when it was held next to a sports game. I myself almost had a confrontation, when I was eating at a fastfood restaurant when I was in San Diego, when a bunch of those drunken sports fans saw me & my cosplaying friends eating inside. ( There were no security nearby, and no police nearby either. And it wouldn't have been really smart to walk away from the restaurant. And if I recall correctly, San Diego is a lot closer to LA than Atlanta.)

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If you can't walk 1 mile (which is the distance from JW Marriott to South Hall from several routes I looked at), then there are other other things you probably need to deal with before worrying about coming here.
Um..I really don't think the distance is one mile to walk straight from the J.W. Marriott to the South Hall entrance. The convention center isn't THAT big.

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I've been to many sports events, and drunks are such a tiny, tiny, tiny group.
Oh, you mean like when the Lakers won the 2010 NBA championship against the Boston Celtics at the Staples Center? I'm sure the rioters were "such a tiny, tiny, tiny group." (I don't recall Atlanta ever having a sports riot this bad, and this took place at the LA Live area, and the convention center.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbqTK...ure=plpp_video

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X-Games fans are different from college football fans.
Um...No.

You do realize that some of the gangbangers would also show up at the X-Games, right?

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I'm done talking on this thread. I find that I can't convince anyone here to have a little patience or learn to adapt themselves.
You know, it's one thing to agree or disagree with the thread, but it's not prudent to lash out at everyone, just because some of them don't agree with you.

Last edited by Hakaider : 04-23-2012 at 01:17 PM.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 12:49 PM   #78
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Jw one mile? Dude it's only 2 blocks from south hall
Thank you, but I don't think camoneko fully grasps what we're trying to work out here, or what kind of information we need to pass on to our friends and family, such as what are the options now for people in wheelchairs and their chaparones? They mostly seem to stay in the Luxe and the JW Marriott as the shuttles don't have a lot of handicapped access. How do they get around this?

I think I see something that liiks like a staircase bridge over Chick Hearns, but it seems to be behind an XGames entrance, so I can't tell if it is accessible. Either way, that doesn't help someone that requires ramped throughways. They may be stuck going out the opposite end of L.A. Live.

Also, is anyone aware if the Rally course is a set of barriers up for one day or does it stretch the 4 days of the event?
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Unread 04-23-2012, 01:58 PM   #79
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such as what are the options now for people in wheelchairs and their chaparones? They mostly seem to stay in the Luxe and the JW Marriott as the shuttles don't have a lot of handicapped access. How do they get around this?
I think this going to be one of those years where "handicap access" at AX is going to be difficult.


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Also, is anyone aware if the Rally course is a set of barriers up for one day or does it stretch the 4 days of the event?
I'm not sure exactly how many days that they actually had it up, but I think that it was up for at least for 2 days. They were blocking off the streets before the X-Games even started last year.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 02:25 PM   #80
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I am not lashing out at everyone, just those who seem to automatically assume the worst in people in a city I've lived in for years because of one incident in another city that happened two years ago. If you have any issue with any fact I have presented, you can PM me as that option has always been there. I will not waste any more of my time trying to defend actual facts I presented, and if you want some concerns addressed by AX Staff, you can always use the official forums.

As for transporting wheelchairs, has anyone actually bothered to call the hotels to see if they offer shuttle service?

This will be my last comment on this thread.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 03:04 PM   #81
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ax legally has to have wheelchair access. when they release the specks if there isnt a way to get to the convention center there is a huge lawsuit. Guys, i find it somewhat pointless to be arguing about this kind of stuff before both ax and the xgames have given their maps. Odds are its gonna change from last year or the year b4
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Unread 04-23-2012, 03:08 PM   #82
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I am not lashing out at everyone, just those who seem to automatically assume the worst in people in a city I've lived in for years because of one incident in another city that happened two years ago.
Actually I live here too. And assuming the worst? No, it is not an assumption. It is a fact. While LA has lot of good hearted people in the city, LAPD will be the first people to tell you that LA has a far higher crime rate, and has far more gangbangers than Atlanta. The Lakers riots in 2010 were far worse than anything that ever happened at DragonCon.

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if you want some concerns addressed by AX Staff, you can always use the official forums.
Well considering that the AX forums went down for a few weeks, and there is a considerable lack of information with the con only a few short months away, I'm afraid that it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, does it? And so far, they aren't really discussing about how things are going to be worked out with the X-Games over there in that forum. (It seems like it's an issue that to be avoided.)

Many people found about the X-Games here, and not over there. If I had to rely on the AX forum alone, even I wouldn't know that there was going to be an X-Games going on at the same time.

Freight has also mentioned in the past that, when he called the SPJA office on the phone, and he expressed his concerns. He could clearly hear them writing it down, and then crumpling the paper up afterwards. (It goes to show that there are some in SPJA who are more concerned about themselves, than the fans themselves. Not all are like that of course, but for those that do, they seem to forget that there wouldn't be a SPJA in the first place, if it wasn't for the fans.)


This kind of reminds me of the story with the famous late singer, Frank Sinatra. Frank was signing some autographs for some of his fans, when his agent rudely interrupted him, and pulled him away. Frank scolded him in public, and told him that if it wasn't for the fans, both he and his agent wouldn't even have a job. Frank then went back and continued signing all the autographs.


Instead of being "distant" to the fans, it wouldn't hurt for the SPJA members (Especially Marc Perez) to come down, talk to the fans, and listen to their concerns at the convention. (After all, they do owe their very existence as SPJA members to the fans.)


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As for transporting wheelchairs, has anyone actually bothered to call the hotels to see if they offer shuttle service?
I think the point in the discussion was about how the handicap people are going to be able to get inside the convention center, when the major access points may be blocked off, and not about how they will be transported out of the hotel. How are people with the wheelchairs are going to be able to get inside the convention center once the hotel drops them off? (If it was already going to be difficult for the cosplayers to get in, it will be twice as difficult for the handicapped people to get inside.)

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This will be my last comment on this thread.
That's what you said on the previous post. Sometimes, you can't take things too personally when people are going to discuss & disagree with you.

Last edited by Hakaider : 04-23-2012 at 06:32 PM.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 03:11 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by amateur cameko View Post
I am not lashing out at everyone, just those who seem to automatically assume the worst in people in a city I've lived in for years because of one incident in another city that happened two years ago. If you have any issue with any fact I have presented, you can PM me as that option has always been there. I will not waste any more of my time trying to defend actual facts I presented, and if you want some concerns addressed by AX Staff, you can always use the official forums.

As for transporting wheelchairs, has anyone actually bothered to call the hotels to see if they offer shuttle service?

This will be my last comment on this thread.
You're oversimplifying.

We've discussed the issues that have occured at Dragon*Con, the Michael Jackson mourners, and now, Hakaider has brought forthe the same kind of issues with the SDCC. It's becoming clear that overdeveloped testosterone mixed with alcohol and the presence of cosplayers can lead to some uncomfortable situations at best, and something downright dangerous at worst.

No one is stating that there will be a fight every five minutes or that someone is going to get acosted, and that is because we're trying to figure out the best forms of prevention.

There's also been a culture of silence and mistrust when it comes to voicing concerns on the Anime Expo Forum for the last couple of years, so you'll have to excuse me, but it isn't as simple as bringing it before them. I'm pretty certain that AX Leadership, and perhaps even some of their Board of Directors, is aware of this thread, and the door is surely open for them to provide answers.

As for wheelchair access, we've only just asked the question this morning. Like anyone seeking information, I asked the people in this thread if they were aware of options. In past years, the AX has offered no shuttle service between the J.W. Marriott and the Luxe to the venue because it was simple walking distance. However, simple walking distance appears to have been cut off, and it's a viable question. Previous years calls to the hotels have yielded that the shuttles are the responsibility of the event, not the hotel, so calling them about shuttles in this case is likely to have the same response.

Something else this brings to mind is that the X-Games owns Chick Hearns, for sure, so the foot traffice across the other side of the traffic barrier in the cross-walk is going to be THICK. Wheelchairs will have an awful time trying to cross the West side of that intersection.

Open debate is certainly welcome, however, personal attacks and cuts are not. Often, the best way to come to a consensus is disagreement and discussion.

Thanks for the info, Hakaider. There has to be some kind of safety system to keep the rally participants from breaking the barrier, but I don't know what that is.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 03:13 PM   #84
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The Anime Expo forums section will always get the most heated in debates, since it has been the one anime con that has been around for a long time and has gone through its ups and downs throughout the years. Everyone has good points to make, and nobody should take anything personal.

I never let any of the politics and drama get to me, and just have fun, which is why I'm glad to be returning this year for my 12th year in-a-row.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 04:48 PM   #85
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I never let any of the politics and drama get to me, and just have fun, which is why I'm glad to be returning this year for my 12th year in-a-row.
I will too, but I am starting to get a bit concerned after checking again this weekend and in the main group I go to cons with, we still have double the people traveling much farther (8 hours north) to go to Fanime in San Jose as compared to the far more local Anime Expo.

While I can find another group of friends to hang out with at the con, it does make me at least slightly concerned for the future of AX.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 05:02 PM   #86
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I will too, but I am starting to get a bit concerned after checking again this weekend and in the main group I go to cons with, we still have double the people traveling much farther (8 hours north) to go to Fanime in San Jose as compared to the far more local Anime Expo.

While I can find another group of friends to hang out with at the con, it does make me at least slightly concerned for the future of AX.
But there's so many potential reasons for that like cost, events, friends following friends, etc. You don't think it's solely over the X-Games, do you?
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Unread 04-23-2012, 05:31 PM   #87
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My own interest in going to AX has dropped significantly after learning that my usual group of cosplay friends probably won't go (yes, the X-Games featured at least somewhat in their decision). I haven't totally ruled out the possibility for myself, but it's getting harder by the day to get enthusiastic about it. AX is a six-hour trip for me. "Wait and see" is fine if you live nearby, but for those of us coming from far away, it'd be nice not to have so many unknowns before we make the various time/financial commitments necessary.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 05:36 PM   #88
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It is rather disappointing that the Xgames is going on next door.
When I was at Wondercon this year, they had a Volleyball tournament going on, and unlike the x-games those weren't a bunch of drunk fans but a bunch of volleyball players. During one of my shoots, a group of these girls were trying to make fun of us and act like idiots and photobomb the shoot.
I think if a bunch of volleyball girls who aren't even drunk do that, then I wonder what a bunch of drunk guys will do.
Oh well! I'm still going to go because I have a lot of cosplayers I'm eager to shoot with...but I will be wary of any drunken aholes wandering about....
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Unread 04-23-2012, 05:51 PM   #89
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But there's so many potential reasons for that like cost, events, friends following friends, etc. You don't think it's solely over the X-Games, do you?
X-games has been specifically cited in enough cases -- whether it's scaled back participation (less restrictive cosplay, no cosplay, not going for as many days as planned) or complete (not going at all).

Maybe not the X-games themselves as much as just the general uncertainty created by the whole affair... the absence of solid or concrete information -- apprehension, uncertainty, etc.
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Unread 04-23-2012, 05:59 PM   #90
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As a PNWer, and an AX attendee since 2009, after hearing about all this, I have a very slight reservation about coming to AX this year.

One part of me wants to go because I wouldn't miss it for the world. Another tells me not to so as to not run the risk of being a victim of a beating. But then again, with some common sense, and a watchful eye.....
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