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Unread 07-14-2012, 12:59 AM   #151
Oberst
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Originally Posted by Freight View Post
I raised the issue with the hotel, IDG, X-Games, and the SPJA. From a standpoint of overall accountability, of course, I hold the AX and SPJA chiefly accountable from a simple cause-and-effect standpoint:

The Olympics moved, and the X-Games, an event 3.5 times Anime Expo's size, decided to move. AX, I'm sure, had the same option, but decided not to.

AX decided not to adapt to the X-Games changing dates, resulting in AX and X-Games taking place on the same day, resulting in someone putting their hands on my wife.

LOFL Honestly! I bet nothing that has ever gone wrong with your life has ever been viewed by you as being your own stupidity has it? I bet you have always pointed a finger at ANYONE else for anything that has gone wrong with your life. You seem no different then a 600 Lb lazy freak that cant stop shoveling food into his mouth blaming McDonalds for his eating disorder. I'm sure there are a thousand lawyers in LA who would love to take up your case, why not try looking into that?

Hate to burst your dreams of financial windfall here, but any Lawyer would tell you, what happened at that Hotel, could have happened at ANY TIME, all it takes is some guy, who has maybe had too much to drink, or is just an arse to bring about the situation that happened, sadly, your wife was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

AX was not to blame here, they chose to stay with the event's scheduled dates for whatever reason, in the end it was up to you to decide if it was worth going, and honestly, if you had felt it dangerous, you had a valid reason to seek a refund from AX and not attend.

Believe me, when I heard about the X-Games taking place at the same time as AX I thought about the possible issues involved, although my main concern was with possible rioting, since we all know LA sports fans tend to get out of hand, even when their home teams WIN events around the Staples Center. In the end I made the decision that I felt I could keep away from the issues by not staying at any hotels in the general area this year, and while at the Convention Center we mainly stayed within the LACC grounds and inside mostly except for the cosplay gatherings. We always parked in the LACC parking facilities. This is taking Personal accountability here, I made the decision to go, after weighing the possibilities of any encounters we might have had and then took steps to limit the chances of those encounters.

What events I do is neither here nor there, suffice to say I have over 8 years experience in planning and creating both one day and weekend events, so I am talking from experience

On your excuses about the POLICE, and the time it takes to "report" a crime, well this sounds like either it is a problem you need to take up with the LA police dept. or maybe it is a personal problem in that you simply did not want to take the time to make a report and have the police deal with the situation, perhaps you just felt it was too much time for YOU to take.

Having fun at Conventions, as well as many different social events are as much a personal responsibility as they are the organizers, with Anime Conventions, the attendees, especially the cosplayers bring a lot of the experience alive. How you enter the experience within your own mindset can make or break the time you have there. Most of the fun I had, besides the concerts, was at the gatherings, which were not put on by AX staff but by the anime cosplayers themselves, I guess I should be griping that I payed over 150 bucks for two premium 4 day entry tickets to supply my own fun but I wont because for me it was worth every penny, plus the tickets for all three concerts, and the stuff I bought. You have not been happy since 2008 you say, so it sounds like you came into this year's convention with an already negative outlook, and it just went downhill for you as other events transpired and, rather then placing blame where it really belongs you want to foist it all onto AX as their fault you had such a crappy experience when it is clear that for at least the last two years, you have shown up with a huge negative outlook already in place that you would NOT have a good time.

Honestly, if AX has let you down so much since 2008 why do you still come? Honestly, if I felt the way you do, I would have stopped attending AX two years ago. Honestly, you gripe about the guest lists, you gripe about the pricing, why the hell did you bother paying to come, and why in hell did you go if you already knew that X-Games was going to be there too and you had issues with it and felt it might be dangerous?

Where to point the blame on what happened to your wife....

1) The guy who assaulted her! That's a given here, HE was responsible for his actions that day. NOT AX, (Or are you implying that AX has some form of mind control that they can create living zombies to do their bidding and Assault ppl in hotels?)

2) The hotel for either not having any proper security in place if this happened in a public/common area of the hotel, and of course for not trying to resolve the issue for you. (Many Hotels have security cameras on room floors these days as well as parking areas etc... and staff usually has very good views of the common areas.)

3)YOU, Yourself are responsible for, first, making the decision to attend even though you knew X-Games would be there, and second, it sounds like you could have done more, as in taking the steps the Police wanted in filing a report, but YOU felt that would take too much of your time to do.

None of this happened at The Convention Center, and therefore it was not AX's fault that it happened.

kthxbye

Last edited by Oberst : 07-14-2012 at 01:20 AM.
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Unread 07-14-2012, 01:41 AM   #152
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@Freight:

Just as suggestion.

It may be best NOT to respond further to Oberst's posts, and ignore his postings from here on.


If you recall about a little over a year ago, Oberst was in this very same forum, and he insulted a lot of people here with various personal attacks, belittling other people's opinions, and many of posts was quite obnoxious. (He eventually stopped coming here, when people stopped responding to his posts.)

Keep in mind that if you respond to Oberst, he will just keep going and going. Right or wrong, he will always want have the last say.

I would recommend to pretend that his posts doesn't exist, and just move on.


I would advise others to do the same. Don't respond to Oberst's posts. (Unless you want pages, pages & pages of him arguing with you.)

I would really recommend to move on to the next thing, and ignore Oberst. Sometimes, a non-response, or silence can speak volumes.

Last edited by Hakaider : 07-14-2012 at 01:49 AM.
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Unread 07-14-2012, 02:04 AM   #153
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LOL Actually I stopped bothering with it because most of what you lot have to say is truly silly for the most part, such as Freights arguments that AX is responsible for some individual's behavior in choosing to assault his wife IN A HOTEL.

If you cant see the sense I am making here, then you are simply another individual that cannot take any personal responsibility for your own actions and decisions in life.

The thing I find most amusing, and honestly I have kept up with the threads, both this one and the "Issues and Concerns" thread is that it seems to always be the same little group of people who mouth off the same "AX is letting us down" and "AX is to blame for..." threads. As I asked Freight I'll say the same to you. If AX has continuously let you down over the last few years, and it has so many issues you cant stand, why do you bother to keep attending?

The best protest you could make at this point is to simply stop spending your money in buying tickets for AX, if enough people feel as you do, and you all stopped attending, then I am sure that would get AX's attention, or they would fail as a convention, either way you end up winning and making your point right?

It's called using common sense. Of course it is always good to bring up legitimate issues on things that AX could do better, or could control better, but remember, much of this con is done by volunteers. But most of the gripes I see you bunch posting are honestly issues that were in no way under AX's control, and some issues, like changing dates, would have most probably caused more harm to the convention overall then good.

Here is a great example, after what I experienced with the ESPN-ZONE eating establishment this year, I can tell you that I will never be eating there again, they seemed to have an attitude that AX attendees were not welcome there this year in favor of the X-Games attendees. My money was good enough for them in 2010 and 2011, but after this year's experience, I will not set foot there again next year. If I felt the way most of you continually do within these threads about AX, I would have stopped attending by now. From what I have read here and on the other thread about the treatment some AX attendees got in a few of the Hotels, it would seem they had the same mindset that the AX patrons were not "the same class" as the X_games patrons, which is insulting in the extreme when the AX attendees have supported the area hotels for so many years now without fail. But again, this is not something that AX can control and is therefore hardly AX's fault, again it comes down to the individuals involved, i.e. Hotel managers and/or staff.

To state that "AX has let me down since 2008", well then, isnt it time to look elsewhere for a Con that meets your expectations?

It's a simple decision here.

Last edited by Oberst : 07-14-2012 at 02:28 AM.
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Unread 07-14-2012, 02:44 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Tasukiseishi View Post
So, before you starting saying I basically deserved what happened, think before you type. I took your comment as offensive, sir.

Have a very nice night.

Then clearly you did not read my comments in full, as I never said you deserved the treatment you got Dear. In fact I am truly sorry this happened to you and I am glad or at least hopeful that you are OK. You have my prayers.

What would I have done in your husband's situation? Well, I would have dealt with it by first getting with the Hotel manager, I would have also called the police immediately and would have also made arrangements as to my wife's well being. In the end, I would be placing the blame where it actually lies, first at the individual who attacked my wife or child, and then at the Hotel for their apparent lack of security. I would not be blaming the EVENT, be AX, X_Games, or whatever event it was, and also I would be looking at my own decision to have gone in the first place, as I have stated in an earlier post, I did have reservations about the X-Games being held at the same time, with all the possible problems such an event could cause, one of the steps I took to lessen the chances of issues happening this year was to not bother to book any hotel anywhere near downtown LA, in the end, I decided to simply make the drive from home each day this year rather then take any risk of issues, my main issue was the possibility of riots breaking out from the sports fans. (Now, if the attack had taken place AT the LACC, then I would be pointing a finger at AX, but since the attack took place outside of the Convention center, and in this case happened where it did, in a Hotel, then that is the place to find fault. The Hotel is responsible for what occurs on their property.)

My issue here is that this was not AX's fault, nor really was it the X-Games fault either, it was THE INDIVIDUAL"S FAULT who attacked you! I would also say the HOTEL has some liability as well, since they should have provided for some heightened security since they too had to of known that there were two major events taking place.

Now if you cant see the sense in what I am stating then I see no hope here and can only say, if your husband has so many issues with AX then it might be time to choose another anime Convention venue, California has a ton of them every year, and I have heard yet another Anime Convention is heading LA's way next year.

Last edited by Oberst : 07-14-2012 at 03:15 AM.
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Unread 07-14-2012, 11:58 AM   #155
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I know I mentioned this before, But, did anyone go to the "Bad Jokes by the CEO" panel?
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Unread 07-14-2012, 11:34 PM   #156
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@Hakaider: Havent you been asking this question for days now without an answer?

Now, onto Freight: After spending some time going back through your statements and taking a little trip out to the JW Marriott, I find there are a few questions raised by your statements.

Now, I am a guy who takes people at their word almost all the time, and I am not saying that there are any outright lies or false statements here, but the story just doesnt ring very well at all here.

First, after checking out the Hotel, I found that the place does have many security deterrents in place, not only to protect guests, but to protect the hotel as well. Security cameras, there are also cameras in the elevators, you are aware of this right? While I could not go onto any floors where guests stay, since I had no guest card, I shall assume that, like most modern hotels, there are cameras that watch the hallways on the room floors as well. Public areas as well and there is a security staff on hand in many areas.

Now, here is the issue freight, you state that you didnt bother to file a report with the police because of 1) the time it would take to do, and 2) because you felt your wife could not give a good enough description of her assailant, correct?

Of course this brings up the question of why the hell NOT! And here, since your tale is so vague on so many levels, and in both of the events that transpired with your wife you were god knows where at the time, one can only assume several possible answers, either...

Your account is a bit exaggerated and your wife was not quite as assaulted as you would like everyone to believe. (This kind of comes across in your lack of concern to involve the police in the first place, let alone seeking any medical involvement to check your wife's well being. I can tell you if my wife told me she had been pinned to an elevator wall by some guy, I would have had the police there in nano-seconds and I WOULD BE FILING A REPORT as I shall explain why you should have in just a moment.) or at least not really injured in anything but some dignity at being roughly pushed away from the elevator controls so some arse could get to his room quickly.

Personal laziness on your part. (I know my own wife would have been pissed at me if I had not taken any action or shown the proper concern for her well being.)

You will notice that I am NOT accusing you of outright lying here, I still take your word that something did happen, I just fail to understand your lack in dealing with the situation properly, unless the reasoning is simply that you are blowing the situation out of proportion over some personal issues with AX

You see, with the surveillance systems that are in place at the JW LA Live hotel, if you HAD filed a report of the incident with the police, this would have allowed the LAPD to open an investigation that would have given them access to the video logs of the cameras. That would have allowed them to show these videos to your wife and her friend and/or any witnesses in order to identify her assailant. Also, you must know that using the guest card in the elevator to access the guest's floor logs information into the hotel's computer system of the time the card was used, who the card was registered to, the room the guest was assigned, etc...

Now, lets say that even with all of that, the police could still not get the assailant. Well, all of this, with the fact of having a report would have allowed you to seek legal redress under the national "Innkeepers Laws", under these Laws....

Harm or Damage Caused by Other Guests
Hotels have an affirmative duty to exercise reasonable care for the safety and security of their patrons. This obligation may include the duty to evict or otherwise restrain drunken or disorderly guests or patrons who may possibly cause harm to other guests or their property. However, the hotel also has a duty not to cause foreseeable injury or harm to the drunken or disorderly guest as a result of the eviction. Under those circumstances, hotels must seek more reasonable alternatives, such as contacting police and arranging safe transport of the drunken or disorderly guest or escorting the person back to his/her room (if this can be done safely without the risk of recurring problems).

A major area of liability exposure is in the serving of alcohol to guests and non-guests. If the hotel actually creates the risk of harm by serving alcohol to an already-intoxicated person, other laws come into play, most notably, state "dram-shop" acts. These laws generally provide that persons injured by intoxicated persons may sue the seller/provider of the alcohol (in this case, the hotel). Hotels can also lose their liquor licenses for serving minors, and, in many states, can be sued for a subsequent drunken driving accident caused by the minor.

Hotels also may be liable for the PERSONAL INJURY of guests caused by the criminal act of another patron or guest, if it can be established that the hotel was negligent or at fault. Criminal acts of other patrons do not always fall into the category of foreseeable risks that hotels can protect against. Nonetheless, in assessing potential fault of the hotel, several factors will be considered. Was the injury or harm reasonably preventable? Who was in charge of security? Were security personnel properly trained? Is there a past history of crime at the hotel? Were assessments of security risks ever established for the hotel? Were security personnel uniformed? Were there an adequate number of security persons on hand to handle routine matters as well as potential emergencies or crises?"


So, had you done the RIGHT thing, and filed a report promptly with the Police, you could have sought damages from the Hotel for what happened to your wife.

Also please note that in the above quote, no where does it say that AX was responsible. You were not in or on LACC grounds when this happened, you were at the JW Marriott.

You state that your wife was talking to her friend when this went down in the hotel, may I ask? What the hell was she doing while this happened?

Alright, enough with the Hotel incident, lets move onto the second accident, where your wife was knocked down by X-Games spectators....

While this was another unfortunate incident and why the Police did nothing, I have no answer for that! This again comes down to some self centered idiots who may or may not have intentionally tried to cause any harm to your wife, they rushed to see the cars and as crowds will do, they push and shove and they care very little for other people around them.

While your wife was clearly not to blame and did not deserve this at all, this still comes down in a way to partly being your own fault. Why? Because you made the decision to go to an event you knew would be full of crowds, and while AX itself can be crowded without any other event being in place, you knew the X-Games would be there too this year and still decided to go. You made a personal decision, if I had been in your shoes, I can tell you I would not have taken my wife to any such place while she was with child, and she would not have wanted to go, since she herself would not have wanted to take the risk of accident. But of course, everyone has their own opinions of what an acceptable risk is and what is not, it is up to each of us to make a decision and then live with that decision if it goes wrong. Being in any crowd environment has risks, just look at Comic-con, which is PACKED EVERY YEAR. One of the reasons my own Granddaughter did not have quite as good a time this year at AX was due to the crowds the first three days, She was often getting bumped by accident, and even when I placed her before me, by the end of the convention her wings were battered and she was tired from the jostling to get everywhere. However, I am not screaming at AX about it, we knew it would be tough this year, and we decided to still attend, that was OUR choice. As far as the people who knocked your wife down, they were all individuals, the area this happened at was under LAPD and the X-Games jurisdiction and so again, this incident was NOT AX's fault

Now, for the last bit. You blame AX because they did not decide to change their event dates. Yet, here is the thing, AX made their plans with the LACC way before X-Games made their change of dates. LACC was locked in. Now, I have no idea how the X_Games got a hold of the staples center/Nokia area, and I have no idea why the same weekend was given to the X-Games, but to me, if anyone should have chosen another date, I would say that it should have been on the X_Games shoulders. You seem to think AX could have switched to last weekend without a problem and still been within the 4th of July holiday, since the 4th was on the following Wed. and yet, by your own reasoning, could not and would it not have been easier for the X_Games to have chosen the following weekend? Remember, they were the one's moving their date back right? Regardless, it is all done now, and we may never know the full reasons why it was decided to hold two huge events the same weekend. However, it happened and we all made our choices here, whether it was to attend or NOT to attend, or to call the cops and file a report or not and complain to people that had no real power to help you.

While this may all be hurtful for you to read, these are the True FACTS here. AX was not to blame for what happened. You could have held the JW to account, IF you had filed a report with the LAPD, but you failed to do so, that was your decision.

Now you can go back to asking about who went to who's panel, I am done with this.
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Unread 07-15-2012, 01:12 AM   #157
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I'm going to be done feeding the troll in a sec. I was out today with a friend in Malibu.

The J.W. Marriott doesn't have any cameras in the elevator or in the elevator area, only in the area leading in.

I was at the convention center while they traveled together. They went to breakfast while I was in another part of the hotel for the DOAX gathering and when I came back, they were out. Both my wife and her friend were extremely unsettled by the incident, and they couldn't remember important details. It They spoke to me and I called the Police. After 15 minutes on the phone, I couldn't get a human on the phone. I called my wife back and she was doing better so after asking her, I let it go.

She showed me the areas of her body and the guy pressed her to the side of the elevator. Not physically harming, but mentally harming, and the definition of assault, or enough that the attorney I work with wants to know more information on how the events meshed and when contracts were signed. I took her to the first aid station at the convention center for a once over since she said she didn't need a hospital. Check the records. You'll find it there.

I have not exaggerated and I haven't done it as a vendetta. I ask these questions because the attorney I work for asked the same questions.

Now, there was hotel security. You'd have to be blind to see the people in suits with earpieces. By definition, according the the legal quote you provided, Criminal acts of other patrons do not always fall into the category of foreseeable risks that hotels can protect against.

And you want me to take personal responsibility for what, not locking her in a room? That's about the most misogynistic allegation I've ever heard. She's pregnant, not crippled. She wanted to go and had personal friends with. I made sure she was confident she could get around and after that, to do anything else infringe on her rights as an individual. She's my partner, not my property, but it seems you would rather go back to the barefoot in the kitchen stereotype, which you apparently think is a woman's place.

By the way, if your granddaughter was bumped so much, did you apologize for bringing her? Or did you blame her for wanting to go? I don't enjoy children being hurt in the slightest, but according to your levels of accountability, you're the one that allowed her to be jostled.

I still don't see why when you have two events and one is 3.5 times the other, then the onus is on the larger event. That's counter-intuitive when the larger event is owned by a multi-national corporation placing 7th on the Forbes 500 list. With ample warning, the SPJA definitely had time to make an adjustment and inform everyone of the change well within acceptable times for 95% of the public.

But since you won't answer any of my own questions about how you've come to these decisions, you've made it clear you only want to attempt discourse through discredit. I'm not done with the issue, but you don't want a conversation and you don't want to learn the facts, so I'm done with you.
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Unread 07-15-2012, 01:55 AM   #158
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LOL wow, you must be a minister on Sundays in your spare time too eh? Way to go on just quoting what little bit of the laws I put up for you, supports your views, How about we add a little more to your quote there shall we.....

"Criminal acts of other patrons do not always fall into the category of foreseeable risks that hotels can protect against. Nonetheless, in assessing potential fault of the hotel, several factors will be considered. Was the injury or harm reasonably preventable? Who was in charge of security? Were security personnel properly trained? Is there a past history of crime at the hotel? Were assessments of security risks ever established for the hotel? Were security personnel uniformed? Were there an adequate number of security persons on hand to handle routine matters as well as potential emergencies or crises?"

There is the whole statement in full there chuckles. Now under the above quote, what this means is that since there were two big events going on simultaniously, did the hotel management, who was bound to know about all this too, take any extra precautions in light of the situation to protect their guests? If it can be proven to be a NO, then you could have them by the proverbial balls here. And suing a huge hotel chain like Marriott makes a lot more sense then trying to sue a anime convention that is is according to you and your buddies still heavily in the RED. A smart Lawyer would tell you up front that your best target would be the hotel chain.

Now, you state you work for a Lawyer, well he must be a pretty desperate one and not that savvy if he is trying to target the "Deep Pockets" as it were, which we all know AX is not rolling in money there. Again better for you to try and sue X_Games. But as any decent Lawyer would state, other then the individual who attacked your wife, the only other responsible party is the Hotel. And she was with friends? And not one friend had a cell phone to call the cops? When she was knocked down, not one friend ran to the police you state were standing nearby? Come on here, for all of what you have stated about FACTS, you really have been overall very vague on the incidents.

You dont know much about elevators do you? I happen to have a friend who works for Mitsubishi Electric, the company that created the elevators the JW uses. Yep, they have a camera, he went with me today and told me all about what those elevators can do with what is installed. You would be amazed at all the capabilities they pack into those elevators.

You took your wife to the "First Aid station"? Sweet jesus, after she was pushed down outside, I would have had my wife at a hospital emergency room. The same friend who works for Mitsubishi was born 6 weeks early when his mother tripped and suffered a fall which broke her water. First aid station at AX O_o are you fricken serious?

And again, if my wife was showing me bruises, I would have been flagging down a cop if I could not get one on a phone, again, these excuses of yours are tremendously Lame, and to make silly accusations about how I view women, lol my wife and I have always been equals. Perhaps we just have a little more sense or caution in realizing all the potentials for accidents at crowded events.

My Granddaughter is a tough girl, and I never had to apologize, the people who bumped her were always quick to say they were sorry, and it isnt like she was bruised, as you say your wife was, for my Granddaughter just going through the crowds all day became tiresome for her by Monday. She still had fun, it was just a more work this year to get around then it had been last year for her and the heat inside from all the people, etc... Anyone who was at AX knows what I am saying here.

So this is the best you can do toodles? Spin and twist and now tell us all that a lawyer thinks he can blame AX when the incidents never happened on AX controlled areas. Best of Luck with that one.

Again, you need to go back and read SLOWLY, everything I have said in all of my posts, let it all sink in here, because your statements that this is all AX's fault are honestly far from intelligent statements to be making.

Instead of digging your hole deeper and deeper, you would be best served to listen to your buddy Haikader. Did you go to that panel he wants to know so much about????

Last edited by Oberst : 07-15-2012 at 02:15 AM.
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Unread 07-15-2012, 03:37 AM   #159
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Oberst, these 'feedback' threads are not so much about fault as much as highlighting problems so that they can be noted and hopefully handled better in the future.

If you are running an event, "It's not our fault" isn't an excuse for ignoring the concerns of your attendees.

I don't know about AX but in many cases the convention staff do read these threads, and they don't want to have to sift through long messages rife with personal attacks and criticisms of other attendees criticisms or things like that. It's best just to post what was good about the event, what was not so good, maybe read about others' experience (as long as you don't get all riled up over what others say).
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Unread 07-15-2012, 05:15 AM   #160
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So how was Malibu, Freight?

BTW, Access, did you get to go to Comic Con this year? I know some of the AX staffers, and former AX staffers went this year. They had a real impressive guest list this year. (Robert Downey Jr., Colin Ferrell, Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Matt Damon, Jodie Foster all showed up in person at Hall "H".) It would be interesting if any of these celebrities ever show up at AX, but AX probably can't afford them.
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Unread 07-15-2012, 10:29 AM   #161
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I tried to get to Comic-Con, but I didn't get in the queues in time.

That, and when I found out that the hotel requires as far as deposit, and I could put together enough at the time to reserve a couple of rooms, but I'd be short-changing my AX deposits, so I decided it wasn't worth the trouble in March. Sad, but there's always next year.

The lack of celebrity presence was the consensus me and Citrakite came to as to why AX can't expand to Comic-Con levels. Not a lot of high celebrities participate and their fans don't have a reason to come to AX unless there's a Miyazaki film panel with the U.S. stars used in their films. Comic-Con had a steady period of growth of Hollywood taking more and more interest in the convention bringing more of their money, projects, and stars, and the fans responded with fervor and it played out well. AX doesn't have the opportunity for that.

Malibu was unfortunately overcast even into 12:15. We walked around El Matador Beach for a while, and if you have a pirate cosplay, this is exactly where you want to take pictures. There's high cliffs, 20-foot tall rocks with alcoves where the water comes in, and a lot of interesting rocks all over the place. The only downside is that it's only accessible by foot, so there's seaweed washed up on shore with no way to really remove it for the populace, unless the local homeowners want to pick it up themselves.

Oh, and the elevators have no cameras. You can claim to know whomever you want, Oberst, but the hotel staff confirmed there's no elevators in the waiting area or in the elevators themselves.

And I never said "bruises". I said he pinned her to the wall with one hand. If you're not going to properly listen, then don't speak.
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Unread 07-15-2012, 12:55 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Hakaider View Post
It would be interesting if any of these celebrities ever show up at AX, but AX probably can't afford them.
I would actually be very happy if AX got someone like Kyary Pamyu Pamyu or Orange Range to show up.

I've seen a lot of groups destroyed by 'chasing' growth, really the comic-con I preferred was the one from 2000 to 2005 or so.

Getting A-class talent that hasn't performed in the US before to show up isn't just about money, also I think today's comic-con is somewhat of an anomaly, it's not a model that any convention can follow. 1) In marketing circles, San Diego is sometimes cited as an 'ideal trial demographic' as its own population is said to mirror the national 'consumer population' as a whole, 2) hollywood's interest or support of comic-con mirrors the recent push to make movies based on comics, 3) video game, mass media interest, again for promotion or sampling; 4) media reporting and coverage drawing people from around the world.
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Unread 07-15-2012, 05:07 PM   #163
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Oberst, these 'feedback' threads are not so much about fault as much as highlighting problems so that they can be noted and hopefully handled better in the future.

If you are running an event, "It's not our fault" isn't an excuse for ignoring the concerns of your attendees.
First, you are actually talking to the wrong person on this issue. Not only is Freight bringing up issues that are NOT an AX "PROBLEM" HE IS looking to find FAULT with AX for two incidents that were not even within the LACC.

You saying that "It's not our fault" isnt an excuse for ignoring the concerns of the attendees, is foolish in the extreme when it comes to this issue. Again, yes there were two events, AX and X_Games at the same time, in the end, so what? That's like looking at Disneyland, if you go on a midweek day during a school season, chances are you find far less people there then you would find on a weekend day, technically, by your reasoning, isnt the weekend or Holiday attendance at Disneyland more "dangerous" then? And using the Disneyland angle to go back to Freight's issues with AX, by HIS logic, if I attended a day at Disneyland, but then got into a car accident on the highway while on my way home, then I should be able to sue Disneyland for any injuries or vehicle damage, since, had I not gone to Disneyland in the first place, I would never have gotten in an accident, it must be the Park's fault!!!!!!

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From a standpoint of overall accountability, of course, I hold the AX and SPJA chiefly accountable from a simple cause-and-effect standpoint:
If, lets say next year, a cosplayer is walking from his/her Hotel to the LACC, or after leaving the LACC, is walking back to their hotel, and they get assaulted while on the public streets, NOT LACC or STAPLES CENTER areas, but lets say the attack happens on Figueroa street several blocks away, under Freight's logic, this would be AX's fault? Simple cause and effect right? The person was dressed in a cosplay costume (Or lets even say the person was in street clothes as Freight's Wife was, but had an AX badge around their neck.) and was attending the Convention, therefore it HAS to be AX's fault!!!! Sadly the LAW doesn't work that way, sorry. AX only has a responsibility over the area(s) they control.

So long as you arm chair CEO's want to discuss actual issues and concerns about AX that they can control and are responsible for, like accidents or safety issues that are within the grounds AX has leased for the event, you wont have me here setting you straight.

Freight's little bombshell of, "My wife got assaulted in the Hotel" and, "My wife got knocked down out on the street in the X-Games area!" are issues outside of what AX had control of. They do not belong here. Start a thread telling people NOT to stay at the J.W. Marriott for next year, and go over to the X-GAmes, and the LAPD websites and gripe at them for their lack in controlling the areas they were responsible for.

Also I would suggest that since you guys find so much wrong with AX, and over the last few years they seem not to be listening to you, you do one of the following...

Pool your pocket change and start up your own nonprofit organization.

Volunteer your services to the SPJA where you may find your views might have a better chance of being heard.

Or, find a con that meets your expectations.

REAL Problems, issues, and concerns are great to discuss, and I am sure the AX staff do listen to them. But issues that are outside of AX to control? Well I am sure Freight and his wife have AX's sympathies as well as many others, but the fact is, the two incidents that freight put up in THIS thread about his wife, were and are, out of AX's sphere of control, they are separate incidents entirely.

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And I never said "bruises". I said he pinned her to the wall with one hand. If you're not going to properly listen, then don't speak.
Thank you for playing Then you basically admit here that you blew the incident out of actual proportion? It was basically just a bruised ego in the end. No marks, no bruises? But your Lawyer thinks you have a case against AX? Over something that happened in a HOTEL on HOTEL property? Damn, please give me this guy's number, so that the next time I go out anywhere special, like to Disneyland, if I have any accident either while on my way to or on my way home or I am assaulted when I get home, I can sue the park and make a windfall.
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Unread 07-15-2012, 07:58 PM   #164
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I tried to get to Comic-Con, but I didn't get in the queues in time.
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I've seen a lot of groups destroyed by 'chasing' growth, really the comic-con I preferred was the one from 2000 to 2005 or so.
@Access & Freight:

Back in 2005, it still wasn't hard to get into Comic Con, and you could still book the hotel rooms a few months before the con started. (I know I booked a hotel less than 2 months before the con started in 2005, and it took less than 5 minutes for me to get a badge back then.)

Today, it's not only difficult to get a badge membership at Comic Con, it's also very, very difficult to book a hotel that's close to Comic Con. (If you have want to get a guranteed seat to see some of the most sought after the events at "Hall H", there's a good chance that you may have to camp out overnight.)

The last time Comic Con had around the same number of attendance as AX today was back in 2000. (They had the attendance numbers of 48,500 in July 20–23, 2000.)


I think it will be awhile before AX will ever reach Comic Con's unique attendance numbers of 130,000. (If that ever happens.) If anything, ever since AX moved to LA, the attendance numbers have been fluctuating up & down. (Which again, brings to the interesting point that it costs a lot more for AX to have it at LA than Anaheim, but the numbers haven't grown that much.)

The last time that AX was in Anaheim was in 2006, the attendance numbers was 40,647 attendees.

In 2011, the unique numbers of AX attendees was 47,000. (Which means that there was a growth of only 6,353 attendees, after a 5 year period .)

You can look at the attendance numbers for AX here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime_Expo


And of course, during the infamous Micheal Lattanzio's short reign in 2010, the unique numbers for the attendees was never released.

Last edited by Hakaider : 07-15-2012 at 08:02 PM.
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Unread 07-15-2012, 08:16 PM   #165
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You saying that "It's not our fault" isnt an excuse for ignoring the concerns of the attendees, is foolish in the extreme when it comes to this issue. Again, yes there were two events, AX and X_Games at the same time, in the end, so what?
No, what I am saying is fault versus responsibility. As in, sometimes you have to deal with things in life that aren't your fault, but that it's still your responsibility to fix (by virtue of your position, duty, business model, leadership role, logistics, etc.) From the perspective of an event organizer, it should make sense. Throwing up your hands and saying "It's not my fault, therefore, I'm not going to try to address/fix/solve the problem (that is affecting people at my event)" is one of the worst things you can do.

And you really need to give the whole Freight thing a rest, this isn't about Freight, or you, or me, or anyone else for that matter. It's about AX, what went right, what went wrong, what can be done better, and so on.

"In 2011, the unique numbers of AX attendees was 47,000. (Which means that there was a growth of only 6,353 attendees, after a 5 year period .)"
Attendance is just one measurement of growth... ie.
growth in importance / relevance...
growth in capabilities...
growth in quality or overall enjoyment...
etc.

Last edited by Access : 07-15-2012 at 08:27 PM.
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