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Unread 07-31-2012, 04:07 PM   #16
2layt
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Originally Posted by evaunit01berser View Post
Just like the Samus at AWA that got best prop, not BIS. Not my logic, Its something I had to accept that just because you make some "armor" out of whatever material, it is not insta-win because it looks cool. Also this armor argument is invalid in my mind because after seeing the winners, I do see someone with armor that won and I see why they won and the other armorers only got runner up
Just because some other con assigned it as best prop doesn't mean we have to. Conventions each run under a different standard. Things will be different for each con. Also I know that armor is not an insta-win. There are many factors that go into someone being picked to win. The armorers who won deserved it most definitely but how are you going to judge quality if one of the usual things you check for quality means checking the hem lines and the competitor doesn't have any. Or what about checking for type of cloth when the competitor doesn't have anything like that? For a group of semstress people they need to check for something else but what would that else be for them? That is when you need someone who has done something like that before to properly judge for quality.

I'm done and will not go further. This is a feedback thread and I have filled it unnecessarily.
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Unread 07-31-2012, 04:10 PM   #17
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Since I tend not to update this account anymore and just use it for forums, I'll note that I'm Vicious Cosplay, the Kirin cosplayer.

This is my second year doing Hall Cosplay at Otakon, and I have to say compared to the previous year I felt it was run much more smoothly than before. The emails were organized and we knew where we had to be and when to check in, and I felt that my wait time on Saturday was certainly not as bad as I had the year before. Staff were all kind and courteous (to be expected) and the Judges kindly gave me about an extra minute of timing since I had a -heavy- amount of detail and techniques set into my costume.

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Additionally, there's nothing subjective about craftsmanship of a costume. Either the quality is there and it's done right or it isn't. If two things are of the same craftsmanship, move on until one costume shows superiority.
I have to completely disagree with this comment though. Once you get down to the last few selections of the major awards you're left with deciding through nit picking thing, and the different qualities in craftsmanship styles also has to be subjective. How easily do you judge between someone in a particular class when you have your last three choices as the person with the very well made craftfoam armor, the person with the flawless seamstress skills on a simple costume, or the person with a complex costume that is also clean? There are things that you can't judge together in those ways so the judges try their best to find the ones with the least flaws. Then of course you also have the subjectness of the categories: You'll let one class slide more in errors than another. This is why I do not believe that the contestants should be given their 'score' at the end of the day because a lot more goes into judging than the number put on the paper.

The biggest complaint I have read in this thread though is the selection of judges and their feedback. I personally did not have time to go back to the feedback session, but as a judge and Masquerade coordinator for other conventions I can understand both sides as a competitor and a coordinator.

Judges are limited, and good judges are -extremely- limited. I have only seen one judge in my life of competition who has specialized in props and armor, and he was a judge at AnimeNorth in Toronto. Then like most cosplayers, judges are also self taught most of the time. I know a few of the judges on the Otakon panels actually went to school for fashion and textiles, but again the convention in terms of judges choices are limited as well by the budget. Some conventions do not give hotel or badge to their judges to work a 8-12 hour day judging for two days, so conventions cannot get the best of the best either.

Unfortunately for the quality of selection in competition you are looking for is impossible to find in the united states because the only organization in which fills a well established backbone of judging, judges, and systems is the International Costumers Guild, and there is not a single convention IN the United States that is supported by ICG. The only convention in North America -period- that utilizes ICG status is AnimeNorth.

As for feedback? You should be happy you get some at Otakon at all. Of the 9 competitions I was in this entire year, only 3 of them had feedback sessions at all. Most of them were online or not even held at all. And then of course the judges choices were far more advanced than 6 of the competitions I was at where it was evident that the judges were probably friends of the coordinator with novice level capabilities and gave awards based off of 'Go Big or Go Home' mentality.

Unless you direct your questions towards the judges themselves, I can tell you Melissa as the coordinator will be unable to answer anything on the specifics of the judges. But your feedback to the -running- of the Hall Cosplay will be a great help to her.
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Last edited by rosevicious : 07-31-2012 at 04:10 PM. Reason: Because the system keeps blocking my post out.
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Unread 07-31-2012, 04:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2layt View Post
Just because some other con assigned it as best prop doesn't mean we have to. Conventions each run under a different standard. Things will be different for each con. Also I know that armor is not an insta-win. There are many factors that go into someone being picked to win. The armorers who won deserved it most definitely but how are you going to judge quality if one of the usual things you check for quality means checking the hem lines and the competitor doesn't have any. Or what about checking for type of cloth when the competitor doesn't have anything like that? For a group of semstress people they need to check for something else but what would that else be for them? That is when you need someone who has done something like that before to properly judge for quality.

I'm done and will not go further. This is a feedback thread and I have filled it unnecessarily.
What refferance do have that they DON'T know about armor? The fact is it's not sewn, it's crafted. Thus it is a prop and not a garment. It may look really good like some of the daily winners, but some, you can see the people underneath when they should be covered. I've never been a judge, but I can say it would be like choosing between a prom dress and a pinata. One is paper mache, one is actual clothing. In a contest that revolves more around the sewing and creation, it takes a good judge to not just be drawn into going with the big shiney (Or dull in some cases) thing standing next to the elegant costume.

Again, I'm not a judge and I don't compete. This is why. Some people take this like it means something in the real world. Guess what? Neither do little league trophies.
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Unread 07-31-2012, 04:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2layt View Post
Just because some other con assigned it as best prop doesn't mean we have to. Conventions each run under a different standard. Things will be different for each con. Also I know that armor is not an insta-win. There are many factors that go into someone being picked to win. The armorers who won deserved it most definitely but how are you going to judge quality if one of the usual things you check for quality means checking the hem lines and the competitor doesn't have any. Or what about checking for type of cloth when the competitor doesn't have anything like that? For a group of semstress people they need to check for something else but what would that else be for them? That is when you need someone who has done something like that before to properly judge for quality.

I'm done and will not go further. This is a feedback thread and I have filled it unnecessarily.
I'll put it this way 2layt, I just looked at your entry, it was this correct?
http://www.cosplay.com/costume/433352/
I am going to be blunt, you really have no base for argument if this is what you entered. I should not be able to see your collared shirt and skin. I'm sorry but this is not a competition classed cosplay.
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Unread 07-31-2012, 05:31 PM   #20
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rosevicious, I agree with you - that was exactly what I was trying to say. I've judged many times before myself and it can be very difficult when you end up juding several entries of high degree of skill, but in different areas of skill. Different judges can and will be impressed by different things at that point. I know I've been in that spot before, and then it comes down to being very picky about cleanliness, accuracy, and nitpicking every last detail. There are few costumes that many would agree are the very best of the best, the cream of the crop.

Anyhoo, I'm only sad I didn't know about the feedback panel til I went to pick up my award, and by then it was too over! Very few cons offer these types of forums for the contestants. And maybe, if anything, the judges could open themselves up to being contacted to discuss constructive criticism to those who seek it? Just a suggestion - I know Ohayocon does that.
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Unread 07-31-2012, 06:56 PM   #21
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I wasn't going to reply but you just had to bring my personal real life self into this.

Quote:
I'll put it this way 2layt, I just looked at your entry, it was this correct?
http://www.cosplay.com/costume/433352/
I am going to be blunt, you really have no base for argument if this is what you entered. I should not be able to see your collared shirt and skin. I'm sorry but this is not a competition classed cosplay.
YES I KNOW THAT I DIDN'T WIN BECAUSE MY COSTUME IS NOT TOP QUALITY.
I am simply stating my mind on what could be further improved based on my judging experience, what others said, and defending it. *shrug* If you think that I don't have basis for argument...whatever. I can't change you.

Quote:
What refferance do have that they DON'T know about armor? The fact is it's not sewn, it's crafted. Thus it is a prop and not a garment. It may look really good like some of the daily winners, but some, you can see the people underneath when they should be covered. I've never been a judge, but I can say it would be like choosing between a prom dress and a pinata. One is paper mache, one is actual clothing. In a contest that revolves more around the sewing and creation, it takes a good judge to not just be drawn into going with the big shiney (Or dull in some cases) thing standing next to the elegant costume.

Again, I'm not a judge and I don't compete. This is why. Some people take this like it means something in the real world. Guess what? Neither do little league trophies.
OMG! HALL COSTUME CONTEST! You just reinforced my point. It's still a costume! Be it out of nothing but cloth or some other material. It's still a costume. That's why we need a more varied panel of judges. Someone who can properly evaluate the costume,who themselves specializes in such costumes and offer insight within the panel of judges when comparing it to costumes of other medium. I'm sorry if I actually CARE about how this is run.

We need a more varied panel of judges so that more creative approaches to costuming can be properly judged. That is all. It's just a suggestion, it's not much! I understand this is probably going to be hard and nothing is going to be perfect. That's fine. Just some food for thought for future competitions.

I'm not sure how the judges are selected but if possible, try reaching out to the scifi con costumer crowd for judges (If this hasn't been brought up before). They have existed far longer than we have and have a whole lot more experience in costumes in general than we do.
Also if something like this isn't possible, at least keep it in mind when it is.
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Unread 07-31-2012, 07:27 PM   #22
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It was my first time entering the contest this year, and it seemed very well run and organized. Even when judging was running behind on Friday, staff kept us well informed, which was appreciated. I would have loved the opportunity for feedback though. I didn't even know there was a feedback panel until I got to this thread; maybe place the details on the website about where we can go to find out the list of winners if we do not wish to go to the masquerade, and also if feedback will be provided and when? I hate asking staff at the con if I can help it, I always seem to get the person who does not know or straight up gives me wrong info.
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Unread 07-31-2012, 07:32 PM   #23
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It was my first time entering the contest this year, and it seemed very well run and organized. Even when judging was running behind on Friday, staff kept us well informed, which was appreciated. I would have loved the opportunity for feedback though. I didn't even know there was a feedback panel until I got to this thread; maybe place the details on the website about where we can go to find out the list of winners if we do not wish to go to the masquerade, and also if feedback will be provided and when? I hate asking staff at the con if I can help it, I always seem to get the person who does not know or straight up gives me wrong info.
Sorry about that, I'm still running Judging session through a trial period, so I wanted to see how it went this year before details went up on the website. I always post winners in the entrance to the office on Sunday, since I know many people don't go to the Masquerade, there was also a sign next to the winners list that mentioned the judging feedback session. Please feel free to ask questions next year, if my staff don't know the answer they ask me so that we get you the right information. Judging feedback was Sunday 10-12, prize pick up went a little later until about 1 or 2pm, whenever we had to have the room locked up again.
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Unread 07-31-2012, 07:38 PM   #24
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Thanks for the quick reply, I will keep that in mind for next time.
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Unread 07-31-2012, 07:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2layt View Post

YES I KNOW THAT I DIDN'T WIN BECAUSE MY COSTUME IS NOT TOP QUALITY.


OMG! HALL COSTUME CONTEST! You just reinforced my point. It's still a costume! Be it out of nothing but cloth or some other material. It's still a costume. That's why we need a more varied panel of judges. Someone who can properly evaluate the costume,who themselves specializes in such costumes and offer insight within the panel of judges when comparing it to costumes of other medium. I'm sorry if I actually CARE about how this is run.

We need a more varied panel of judges so that more creative approaches to costuming can be properly judged. That is all. It's just a suggestion, it's not much! I understand this is probably going to be hard and nothing is going to be perfect. That's fine. Just some food for thought for future competitions.

I'm not sure how the judges are selected but if possible, try reaching out to the scifi con costumer crowd for judges (If this hasn't been brought up before). They have existed far longer than we have and have a whole lot more experience in costumes in general than we do.
Also if something like this isn't possible, at least keep it in mind when it is.
So.. again... you know nothing of the selection process and yet open your mouth on how it should be done. Lol look, if you get someone who does mainly armor, that would be harmful to the process. First, you assume no one in the selected have done armor before. Then you assume they can't judge it well even though Friday and Saturday went to armor cosplays. Tell me everyhthing you know, because obviously you are a sage.
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Unread 07-31-2012, 09:03 PM   #26
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This was my first time doing the Otakon Hallway Cosplay. I thought the process went very well and really liked the pre-reg you could do for the contest itself. I do feel like there should be a more varied panel of judges if possible. Also I didn't know there was a feedback session so, maybe, if this is done again it can be put in the books that are handed out when you pick up your badge or in the email for registration for the hallway cosplay contest. I would have personally liked to have gone to that if I knew about it. Another option would be maybe to email the contestants their feedback, if they can't attend or something like that. I also had a wonderful experience in the catwalk for the hallway cosplay. For both the catwalk and the hallway cosplay judging sessions, the staff was very helpful, nice and polite. I would totally do it again! ^_^
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Unread 07-31-2012, 09:50 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by 2layt View Post
YES I KNOW THAT I DIDN'T WIN BECAUSE MY COSTUME IS NOT TOP QUALITY.
I rest my case, the defendant has proven that he entered a contest without the intentions of winning but expected the judges to nitpick his costume when you don't even have to get up from the table to be able to tell this should not have even been entered.

Point is, why waste the effort to judge you when you fail at the obvious details. Don't try discredit the judges when you have no base to argue.
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Unread 07-31-2012, 10:24 PM   #28
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I applied to Friday's contest with my Ganondorf costume. The staff was very nice and organized and the judges were also friendly ("We don't bite." "Well, you look like you might.") Euphoria even contacted me afterward! So grateful for her encouragement and her Friday award.

I would have LOVED an emergency fix station (I had my own attached to me all day, but still). Dallas's Akon has emergency cosplay fix stations all over the convention center. I believe it would have made the experience feel a little less stressful and a little more welcoming.

The HCC office was also very warm compared to other areas in the convention center (this coming from a guy wearing velvet, craft foam, prosthetics, ben nye makeup, and a wig). lol A little circulation or a chill would have made me less stressed about losing an ear or an eyebrow, but that's a personal preference. I understand if your bare buck naked you might not appreciate the chill.

I heard tell of a "sewing bias" which is unfortunate but I won't harp on that. My sewing was beneath amateur and I got an award. It does encourage me to beef up the full spectrum of my crafting skills.

There's always room for improvement, but you all are doing a wonderful job. Thanks for all the hardwork and for the super fun masquerade walkon! That was a real blast.

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Unread 07-31-2012, 10:28 PM   #29
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I would have LOVED an emergency fix station (I had my own attached to me all day, but still). Dallas's Akon has emergency cosplay fix stations all over the convention center. I believe it would have made the experience feel a little less stressful and a little more welcoming.


-John/Brenus/Ganondorf
We have one, we just don't advertise it. I prefer to keep the office to contestants only (because of noise levels, keeping things secure, etc..) but all you had to do was ask. We had many people make use of the kit this year.

For the A/C thing, we have no control over that, that's the BCC. I've heard rumors they're in the middle of upgrading their HVAC for next year.
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Unread 08-01-2012, 03:07 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by evaunit01berser View Post
http://www.cosplay.com/costume/433352/
I should not be able to see your collared shirt and skin.
Well, the picture was taken from a higher vantage point. Perhaps if the photographer took the picture from a much lower angle, we wouldn't be able to see his collared shirt. I know I would've asked the cosplayer to lower his head to hide said clothing.
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