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Unread 02-15-2004, 06:42 AM   #1
Nine
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Con Policies Discussion.

This year, Sakuracon's convention policies are very strict. I don't want to go into full detail about them, but if you go onto the Sakuracon website, you can read them. They're aiming this convention to be a "family friendly" event, but I do think they're going to far.

I for one think their masquerade rule of if you're not wearing a costume that isn't Japanese related, you get DISQUALIFIED, is too harsh. Last year, Sakuracon had skits with Harry Potter in them. Sure, a new cosplay cordinator means new rules, but what about those who don't go on to the message boards, or don't visit the website? Will the be threatened with a disqualifiaction for wearing a costume they most likely made and made a skit up just for the masquerade?

I for one don't think these rules will be as heavily as enforced, from last years experience. The cosplay masquerade had a rule that a skit had to be no more than 2 minutes long. Then, guess what? A group preforms a 5 minute skit and wins an award for that too. O_o I'm not ragging on the group for winning an award, they surely deserved it, but I don't think it was fair when they got to preform for 5 minutes when groups including mine had to strive to make our skit work under 2 minutes.

With the rules of trying to make this con a family-safe convention, I'm afraid that the con people might ask me to alter/edit/not wear some of my costumes, which makes me nervous to even bring them. -_-;;

*shrugs* The con policies are turning out to make this con a no-fun convention, but regardless of any rules, I'll obey them. It's not like I'll be spending my full stay in con areas. I will be in my hotel room w/ friends, and prolly going out to town for dinner with some etc. *shrugs*
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Unread 02-15-2004, 03:17 PM   #2
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I think the family friendly rules are great or else me and my friends wouldn't be allowed to go. ^.^ Also, I must remind people that this is an *Anime* convention last time I checked, and Harry Potter is not anime (sorry to burst some people's bubbles) If people didn't read the rules, then they probably aren't too serious about it. So yeah...

Oh, altering costumes... hmmm
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Unread 02-15-2004, 07:05 PM   #3
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I was Hermione Granger in the skit that won a judges award and we had a Harry Potter too. It was an anime based skit and last year that wasn't specifically against the rules. This year it is at Sakura. No big deal. Personally, I thought it was fun to take a character from "pop culture" and plop that character into 'anime land' to see how that charcter would react... obviously the audience screaming hysterically with laughter and cheers showed that they appriciated it. But sometimes at cons, it's not about what the audience loves, sometimes there are "anime purists" that are offended. I also think there might be a movement to do things like other cons do things.

The change to the rules that I thought was funny was the rule that specifically does not allow someone like a "Random Otaku #3" to be inserted into the skit. Let's see, what is the biggest fantasy of an anime fan (straight male)? How about being sucked into the world of their favorite show? Perhaps waking up one morning and finding out that you are Tenchi?

Agreed about the time limits and the group I was in went over! We could have tightened up a bit, but in viewing the video, so much of our problem was from the crowd reaction. Last year the rules didn't have a provision as to what to do when contestants went over and the judges weren't coached on what to do and no one was timing anyway. Totally agreed that groups that did their best to stay under should have been rewarded. But, if one is asked to be a judge and the judging form doesn't have a place for that, that isn't the where the finger should be pointing.

I hope skit based Cosplay like we still have up in the Pacific Northwest never goes away! It might even have to turn into two competitions, Anime Improv kind what Mark at Anime Alberta does and a Costume Competition with a pre-taped show like Anime Expo. To me, the great performaces like your group (that also got an award at Sakura) and Baka Zoku and that girl who did that great "Jesse" from Team Rocket monologue and some others from the years are like watching the best fan-fic come to life and pre-recorded cosplay skits are like watching really bad FanDubs or the kind of butchered anime dubs that most of us complain about. But then I tend to be opinionated about the subject....
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Unread 02-15-2004, 10:17 PM   #4
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Sailor Naboo - The Harry Potter skit your group preformed was excellent. I wasn't refering to that one because in fact the crowd was screaming and cheering so much, so you guys had to wait. ^^ I think that if a skit goes over that 2 minute mark because of something you have no control over, then that's fine. What is one going to do? Make their skit less funny so the crowd doesn't waste the time? haha.

My question is, that seeing this years cosplay has a strict rule on skit content, what if my group were to preform the skit we preformed at the last Sakuracon? Would we have gotten disqualified? This year I'm not worried about it, because I'm actually preforming a skit by myself, and I don't see why I'd get disqualified seeing it's just me Para Para dancing, but still I hope the con has that dress rehersal that they are trying to make time for, so I can know that my skit will be fine to preform.
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Unread 02-16-2004, 03:18 PM   #5
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That's true. I am a little surprised by the "No Random Otaku #3" rule, and the Japanese-related only rule. Last con in Japan I saw pictures from had Harry Potter cosplayers. So does that make HP related to Japan now? ::is being facetious:: Not to mention, there was some dude dressed as Legolas, and he got a hall cosplay award, so I mean, yeah...

Nine, I doubt that you'll be disqualitfied because of your ::ahem:: revealing costumes, but then again, I think someone asked Zan-san to put on a shirt last year. >Can't Remember<

But the rules probably won't be too strictly enforced. Although I must admit, I'm sad that we're not allowed to have signs anymore.
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Unread 02-16-2004, 11:09 PM   #6
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Nine, I remember that you have always been on our side though all of us! Here's an interesting fact. In timing the skits, ours was longer than the "best of show" skit. It just didn't seem like it because of how entertained the crowd was.

The Sakura Rule from last year had a loop hole we took advantage of and that was that the skit had to be anime related. Harry showed up in "Anime Land" and wackiness happened. I had a small walk-on as Hermione, also in "Anime Land" because Harry couldn't remember how to translate Japanese ('Anime Tranlatus!').

Other cons have more specific rules that would not have allowed that. As long as I'm involved in cosplay at Kumori Con in Oregon, I'm sticking with Anime based skits and I don't care who wants to show up and visit as long as the skit is anime based and it entertains. I also insist on disclosure of the costume maker on the entry forms. Commisioned Costumes, no best costume prize. You or Someone else in attendance made the costume, the costume creator wins, Young person, Jr Craftsman (unless their work is as good as the adults), Young Person with adult help (Jr Up and comer). We did an "Honorary Best Costume of Show" for a woman who had won some important awards at Anime Expo and was feeling gracious about giving others a chance to win, but her costume was so great, we wanted to recognise it. When the con gets larger, I'll split it into more standard experience groups.

I don't understand the "No Lum" rule. It's not like Lum wears a thong. It's just a normal bathing suit. If people are going to be making ratings based on movie ratings and then use PG or PG-13 as an example, they should perhaps take a look at what they are using to compare. PG includes use of the famous S word that ends with it and PG-13 includes simulated sex. Nine, I do get the feeling that this year they will be taking the new rules seriously. I think you still would have been OK as Naga since you had a bodysuit under the costme, but if you didn't and it was this year, you'd be sent back to change...but then that's just a guess.

Then the Sign Rule. OK, they don't want 12-year-olds walking around with signs that say "glomps, $1" I can live with that. But I want to see the Muggle with the Kupo sign with Save? on the other! I "save my game" every year at Sakura and it will feel like something is missing without it.

To me, it seems like there must have been a brainstorming session based on anything that someone saw one person do that someone didn't like, and then a rule for everyone was based on what that one person did...but that's just my take on it.
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Unread 02-16-2004, 11:29 PM   #7
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There's a discussion about the sign issue going at at the SakuCon boards right now. If you want to bring up other issues, I'm sure they'll listen to you.
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Unread 02-17-2004, 10:58 AM   #8
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I won't have a problem with my masquerade costume this year, because of the rules of the 'family convention' I'm not crossplaying for the event. I will be wearing a male version of a costume a Para Para dancer named Miho wears in Para Para Paradise 7. That better be counted as Japanese. The outfit was worn by a japanese woman, in a video film and distributed in japan, about a dance that is very popluar in japan. *shrugs* I hope I have no problems with it.
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Unread 02-17-2004, 07:37 PM   #9
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Oh, cool! ParaPara! I don't think there will be to much of a problem. Is crossplaying not family friendly? I plan on crossplaying most of the time, and most of it isn't overly revealing or anything, I don't think. :onders:: Well, I look forward to seeing you there. I haven't seen much PPP cosplay.
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Unread 02-18-2004, 06:19 PM   #10
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It's the Great Debate: Non Anime Cosplay vs. Anime/Asian Cosplay. Since I already went through this on the Sak boards>non too nicely, either. I'll not bore you with my ranting, maybe.
Yes, I do agree that the rules this year seem stricter. That's because instead of just saying things and hoping things will happen, the con is trying to put its foot down. I myself have issues with the little to no clothing thing, but that mostly aesthetic (Man Faye up close and personal at AX03' was not my idea of a good time, for my eyes or my lunch) But I don't really care for non-convention related cosplay. Why? Because it's distracting. I like HP and LOR, etc. but there are several cons in our area that promote it. I'd prefer to see fans dressed as their fav characters/personalities from content conscious material. The gazillion Matrix cosplayers??? Don't even get me started....o_O
What I am curious to see is how the con staff is going to enforce rules. As the Fashion Show Coordinator, I won't allow costumes that don't fit into the rule category because this event is not skit-based like the Cosplay Masquerade. I also think the Con Staff is trying to promote cosplayers to up the bar on their costumes and bring down the house with funny skits while still having fun. Sure, people can wear just about whatever they want if they're not in any cosplay events, but everyone doesn't have to accept it, either. The cosplay guidelines are also pretty lax, especially compared to some older, larger cons. Some don't allow prop weapons at all.

Now, if it's just a cosplay/costume convention....that's a totally different story.

Last edited by ssmitty : 02-18-2004 at 06:22 PM.
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Unread 02-18-2004, 06:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Naboo

Then the Sign Rule. OK, they don't want 12-year-olds walking around with signs that say "glomps, $1" I can live with that. But I want to see the Muggle with the Kupo sign with Save? on the other! I "save my game" every year at Sakura and it will feel like something is missing without it.

.
It seems they're trying to nip the sign issue in the bud. Funny thing is, last year, there wasn't suppose to be any signs...What the staff is trying to prevent is people basically whoring themselves (will glomp for $$$ to who knows what) especially when there are minors present. Nevertheless, I think they ought to just say "no signs pertaining to sexual or physical contact, ie yaoi, yuri, glomp, etc." It really should be a common sense thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Naboo
To me, it seems like there must have been a brainstorming session based on anything that someone saw one person do that someone didn't like, and then a rule for everyone was based on what that one person did...but that's just my take on it.
I think there wasn't one, and that's why the sign rules seem so haphazard, that and I think there are those in the staff that are trying to go out with a bang since they won't be able to return to the con.
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Unread 02-20-2004, 06:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmitty
It seems they're trying to nip the sign issue in the bud. Funny thing is, last year, there wasn't suppose to be any signs...What the staff is trying to prevent is people basically whoring themselves (will glomp for $$$ to who knows what) especially when there are minors present. Nevertheless, I think they ought to just say "no signs pertaining to sexual or physical contact, ie yaoi, yuri, glomp, etc." It really should be a common sense thing. .
Sign Policy for Sakura-Con 2004
http://www.sakuracon.org/index.php?l...s.html#signage

Also, Neko Con has a sign policy as well.
http://www.nekocon.org/policy.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmitty
I think there wasn't one, and that's why the sign rules seem so haphazard, that and I think there are those in the staff that are trying to go out with a bang since they won't be able to return to the con..
I'm very disappointed that people chose to have this perception that the sign rule was put together haphazzardly, and people are trying to leave the convention with a bang.
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Unread 02-20-2004, 06:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaacada1
Sign Policy for Sakura-Con 2004
http://www.sakuracon.org/index.php?l...s.html#signage

Also, Neko Con has a sign policy as well.
http://www.nekocon.org/policy.html

I'm very disappointed that people chose to have this perception that the sign rule was put together haphazzardly, and people are trying to leave the convention with a bang.
It's not so much the way staff is perceived but the way things are run. I understand that the staff is trying to allow a more democratic approach to processes and more freedom for attendees to have a say in con policy, yet at the same time there's this selective hearing that's going round. Hmm, it's hard to explain. Many past convention staffers have tired of the impolitic politics and have moved on. But at the same time the ones who have remained are forced to pick up the slack and keep it going. The good that do remain also are left in the dark. No one is saying "Praise me" but a little recognition of a volunteer's effort is greatly appreciated but not really given to many who give a large portion of their free time to running the con. It's still a volunteer hobby and people tend to not have Convention as their only pastime. Work, family, relationships, etc. have priority. I think many people get frustrated when they're shoved to the back and con cronies are petted and wooed. I, personally get really fed up with the High School mentality of many con staff. I did not join staff to listen to people tell others how much better they are than others and why they're so special, blablablabblab. It's really tiresome. Sometimes I want to yell at them to grow up and out of their parents' basement, literally and figuratively.
There's also this "let's be more mature" mentality which is fine, but some seem to use it as an excuse to single others out as scapegoats. You know, half truths and rumors abound. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll volunteer next year, nevertheless I intend to follow the con rules and fulfill my con responsibility. More and more I come to SAK to hang with friends and less with the con content itself.
I'm heartened that you (isaac) look to other cons as a resource for SAK, because there are those that think they do not need to seek out other cons for advice and feedback. I also think this "inhouse" thinking will eventually kill SAK by suffocating it and keeping it in a fishbowl. Eh, but what do I know about this. It's my own biased opinions, that why they're opinions not facts, merely my perception. I'm just trying to keep my little boat afloat, too.
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Unread 02-20-2004, 07:33 PM   #14
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First off, I have to state that why are you posting your opinions about the convention not on the staff message board, but another message board? I just don't understand how posting personal opinions about how the convention is operating on an non convention communication forum helps the convention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmitty
It's not so much the way staff is perceived but the way things are run. I understand that the staff is trying to allow a more democratic approach to processes and more freedom for attendees to have a say in con policy, yet at the same time there's this selective hearing that's going round. Hmm, it's hard to explain. .
I like hard "facts" about this. I deal with facts regarding issues. THe November general meeting is where a discussion of the policies was discussed for everyone and then voted in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmitty
Many past convention staffers have tired of the impolitic politics and have moved on. But at the same time the ones who have remained are forced to pick up the slack and keep it going. The good that do remain also are left in the dark. .
Some staffers leave because they've put in their time, and have other opportunites to pursue. Some leave because they couldn't work with the staff because of personality issues. This happens to every convention. Good and bad is subjective to personal opinion. I don't wish to ask you to name names over a public site on this about who's good sthat's stayed and bad. I've tried to improve the convention through my elected position from previous years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmitty
No one is saying "Praise me" but a little recognition of a volunteer's effort is greatly appreciated but not really given to many who give a large portion of their free time to running the con. It's still a volunteer hobby and people tend to not have Convention as their only pastime. Work, family, relationships, etc. have priority. I think many people get frustrated when they're shoved to the back and con cronies are petted and wooed.
I've given out recognition this year to staffers. It's up to the membership to elect people that will give out recognition. Conversely, membership voted the people running for the positions as a recognition of their abilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmitty
I, personally get really fed up with the High School mentality of many con staff. I did not join staff to listen to people tell others how much better they are than others and why they're so special, blablablabblab. It's really tiresome. Sometimes I want to yell at them to grow up and out of their parents' basement, literally and figuratively.
.
I have no idea who you're referring to. Unfortunately, with volunteer organizations, we're as good as the staff that we can assemble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmitty
There's also this "let's be more mature" mentality which is fine, but some seem to use it as an excuse to single others out as scapegoats. You know, half truths and rumors abound.
.
Again, facts are the issue of the day. You're free to post your questions about this on the staff ml or staff forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmitty
Unfortunately, I don't think I'll volunteer next year, nevertheless I intend to follow the con rules and fulfill my con responsibility.
.
That is unfortunate you don't plan to return next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmitty
More and more I come to SAK to hang with friends and less with the con content itself.
.
Anime conventions have really changed in that respect. WHen I started to come, people wanted to come for the anime, now it's mostly just a place to meet people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmitty
I'm heartened that you (isaac) look to other cons as a resource for SAK, because there are those that think they do not need to seek out other cons for advice and feedback.
.
I've researched conventions since I became a staffer in May 99. I've researched anime, comic, gaming, scifi, fantasy, etc.. events to see what would work best for the con. Many idea's and events we've done are a direct result of seeing what other cons do(Photo Booth - Otakon, Fashion Show - AX, Charity Auction AX, Artist Alley - General Anime Cons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmitty
I also think this "inhouse" thinking will eventually kill SAK by suffocating it and keeping it in a fishbowl. Eh, but what do I know about this. It's my own biased opinions, that why they're opinions not facts, merely my perception. I'm just trying to keep my little boat afloat, too
.
I don't know about this inhouse thinking. The only inhouse thing I know that's been advocated is that all the staffers are based out the Pacific Northwest(Alberta, BC, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Washington). I don't understand the fishbowl comment.

You're free to post your opinions on the staff forums.
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Unread 02-20-2004, 08:05 PM   #15
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This is for all to read and digest or throw up

Like yourself, I do post on the staff AND other boards. I've indeed tried to bring issues up, but to no availe(sp) As I mentioned before just opinions and hearsay. Also, when others share similar sentiments and wish to post I let them have their say first and let the people issue their grievances or suggestions or even praises.
Don't misunderstand. I know that many SAK people including yourself read and post to this boards.

This was not to point fingers, just a general feeling. I optimistically think that as SAK grows, the new gen. of staffers will have a more open outlook to this whole convention creation process and the vet staffers will have much to teach them. I'm well aware of the amount of time and work that goes into creating and maintaining this kind of event. I regularly participate in others though not involved in anime/manga, etc.
As for fishbowls, I was obviously speaking figuratively not physically. Being a PNW native, I'm aware of the geographic scope of participants.
You back your end of it and that's fine. You don't need to defend yourself to me. What and how you run your position is largely up to you. I do not assume to micromanage you or anyone else's reaction.
And I wouldn't continue to come the SAK every year if I hated it so much. I really love SAK that's why I decided to make a concerted effort to volunteer and have a positive impact on the con. Who knows what I will gain? New skills, ideas, friends, even frustrations. But I do it willingly and understanding the risks at hand.
At the same time, I'm certainly not going to Kiss Butt nor do I expect others to kiss mine. I respect the work that goes into this event, but I know I will not get along with everyone on a personal level. However, I intend to do so on a professional level. If you feel it's so important I will Post this on the staff board. If others wish to discuss this in more depth please PM or email me. Anyone who's read my posts know I'm pretty hardheaded about things.
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