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Unread 12-19-2012, 02:05 AM   #31
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I've only said no to a photography once when I was in a big rush to get from one place to another (and was late at that). Other than that time I haven't done it.
I have seen other people reject pictures for one reason or another. I've even seen people be rude about it, which really isn't right. I remember one person got all pissy when someone asked if they could take a picture and made some snippy remark about making it quick, and when the person fumbled their camera and accidentally switched it off (or something like that), the cosplayer just got all huffy and stormed off. I understand that they were tired but their reaction and response was totally uncalled for.
I guess my point is, if you're going to reject a picture, be polite about it. There's no reason to snap at someone who asks to take your picture.
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Unread 12-19-2012, 02:56 AM   #32
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I've only said no outside of the convention space/people not involved in the convention.

Yeah, I know people are curious about people dressing up in public and that I don't mind, but a friend and I have come across some sketchy/immature people that definitely wanted to ask for our picture (and several other cosplayers nearby) to share on facebook and laugh at later. Happens alot with Hobbystar cons in Ontario usually being doublebooked with another major event in downtown Toronto. :/
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Unread 12-19-2012, 02:06 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Kildread View Post
Not passive-agressive: You're a jackass and it has nothing to do with your gender.

Legal rights --- my ass, the entire comment is about someone asking for a picture, the cosplayer saying no, and someone snapping a picture anyway.

It has nothing to do with legal rights. It's about someone saying "No, don't do it." and people doing it anyway.

Simple stuff, you don't need a document written in legalese to tell you the acceptable boundaries of this.
Nope, I'm just bored and am playing devil's advocate about a post in a thread that would otherwise be 50 replies of "Yes, I have also declined photo requests for the same reasons posted above..."

You, however have shown your level of reading comprehension and maturity, or lack thereof... the comment/debate isn't about the action of the photographer taking the picture after the person has asked them not to and whether or not its rude. It's about it not being something worth getting upset about because they didn't have to ask for your permission in the first place. It has everything to do with legal rights.

You have no reasonable expectation of privacy when in public places. In the situation of cosplayers and photographers at conventions, a photographer asking for a photograph of a cosplayer isn't so much as asking "can I take your picture", it's asking "would you like to pose for a picture".

No one is denying that it's rude to intentionally go against someone's wishes by photographing them when they ask you not to, but it's such a inconsequential act that I see no point in dwelling on something that you have no legal right to dispute anyway. It's not even on the level of getting cut off in traffic or someone bumping into you while walking because those have an immediate physical danger associated with them. This is simply a case of 'someone did something that I don't approve of, so they shouldn't be allowed to do it.'
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Unread 12-19-2012, 06:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2DLogic View Post
the comment/debate isn't about the action of the photographer taking the picture after the person has asked them not to and whether or not its rude.
Hi. I'm the one who made the comment. It IS, in fact, about whether doing that is rude.

And it is.

Thank you and good night.
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Unread 12-19-2012, 07:15 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangochutney View Post
Hi. I'm the one who made the comment. It IS, in fact, about whether doing that is rude.

And it is.

Thank you and good night.
Please don't take things out of context like that. Picking one part of a quote and trying to spin it a different way is no better a way of trying to prove your point than resorting to insults.

I never claimed that it wasn't rude, therefore no one is debating you about whether it is or is not rude. So no, that's not what the debate is about.

I said that it's not worth dwelling on because no legal offense was committed and as such there is nothing that you can do about it. This point still stands; I really fail to see what's so difficult to understand about this.

Your welcome, and good night to you too.
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Unread 12-19-2012, 07:16 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangochutney View Post
Hi. I'm the one who made the comment. It IS, in fact, about whether doing that is rude.

And it is.

Thank you and good night.
Why bother? You know how it is with these goalpost-moving types.
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Unread 12-20-2012, 10:37 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by sam vimes View Post
Why bother? You know how it is with these goalpost-moving types.
The goal post is in the same place its always been. Problem is no one can get the ball close to it.

I made a comment about not letting something that you have no control of anyway bother you and have been defending my post from people who can't seem to read well enough to realize that I never advocated nor defended the act in the first place.
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Unread 12-20-2012, 11:02 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by 2DLogic View Post
The goal post is in the same place its always been. Problem is no one can get the ball close to it.

I made a comment about not letting something that you have no control of anyway bother you and have been defending my post from people who can't seem to read well enough to realize that I never advocated nor defended the act in the first place.
I'll chime in and play devil's advocate with you. I thought your initial point was totally valid.

I often take a lot of photos when I go to events, and unless the venue has some sort of rule about camera use, there's never any restriction saying I have to ask individuals if I can take their photo. However, if I ask, it's not really to get permission (which I don't actually need) but also because I want to get a better photo- with my subject looking at me, posing, doing something cool...

I used to be really shy and wouldn't ask people to pose. I got a lot of really boring terrible photos that I'm embarrassed to look at every time I'm looking at old stuff. If I wanted more photos like that, then I wouldn't talk to people before photographing them... I'd just snap as many pictures as I could and then hopefully 1 or 2 wouldn't suck that much.

All that said- if somebody said 'no' when I asked to take their photo, I wouldn't snap one anyway. That's a dick move.
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Unread 12-21-2012, 03:09 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djlemma View Post
All that said- if somebody said 'no' when I asked to take their photo, I wouldn't snap one anyway. That's a dick move.
Pretty much. It all comes down to legal wrong versus moral wrong. Sure, it's legally fine to snap a pic even if someone says no... but you're still pretty much an ass if you do it anyways. At least, that's how I see it.
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Unread 12-21-2012, 06:14 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2DLogic View Post
Nope, I'm just bored and am playing devil's advocate about a post in a thread that would otherwise be 50 replies of "Yes, I have also declined photo requests for the same reasons posted above..." [...]Look at me I'm so witty[...]No one is denying that it's rude to intentionally go against someone's wishes by photographing them when they ask you not to, but it's such a inconsequential act that I see no point in dwelling on something that you have no legal right to dispute anyway. It's not even on the level of getting cut off in traffic or someone bumping into you while walking because those have an immediate physical danger associated with them. This is simply a case of 'someone did something that I don't approve of, so they shouldn't be allowed to do it.'
I hope you realise that this is a dangerous statement right there, because such thinking encourages harassment. Personally I don't give a flying fuck if you want to nitpick about legal implications just to make things "interesting" (pissing people off, obviously, is going to make things interesting. Good job?).

http://thegeekypeacock.blogspot.com....slip-rant.html

Last edited by pinkkiller : 12-21-2012 at 06:51 AM.
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Unread 12-21-2012, 04:03 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by pinkkiller View Post
I hope you realise that this is a dangerous statement right there, because such thinking encourages harassment. Personally I don't give a flying fuck if you want to nitpick about legal implications just to make things "interesting" (pissing people off, obviously, is going to make things interesting. Good job?).

http://thegeekypeacock.blogspot.com....slip-rant.html
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to post that. Its a good article about etiquette and self-empowerment, but that's still not what the original issue was. No one here is talking about repeated creepy photos like the author of that article was unfortunately subjected to. In fact, till your article post sexually suggestive photography hadn't even been brought up, aside from me very briefly saying that there is a fine line where the legal right to public photography stops and becomes harassment and or invasion of privacy, and should be dealt with as such.

Not to mention that her analogy of "telling women not to wear short skirts if she doesn't want to be raped" is a logical fallacy designed to get quick emotional support.

There is no excuse for rape ever. Period. It is one of the most vile forms of violence a person can commit against another person.

Logically, the analogy should have read something like "telling a woman not to wear short skirts if she doesn't want attention". This makes sense because as a society we normally wear clothes that cover certain parts of our bodies, when someone doesn't cover those parts they invite attention from anyone who notices because it breaks our conception of "the norm".

For example, the US has voyeurism laws that prevent things like 'up-skirt' and 'down-blouse' photography even when a person is in public because they're making an attempt to keep 'private areas' private. If they walk outside nude however, they can't get mad that someone snapped a pic of their normally private parts.

The overarching message of the article that cosplayers shouldn't be sexually objectified because of the costumes they wear is also muddied when she says:

"If a man approached me and said: "You have a nice posterior. Allow me to photograph it.", you know what I'd do? I'd pop my booty with a smile. But what gives people the right to line up behind me and snap photographs of my butt, unaware to me?"

Here, she's not mad because someone took, or would like to take a sexually objective picture of her butt rather than her costume. She's mad because she wasn't give the choice to sexually objectify herself.

What give's those people the right to snap those creepy pics is the same principle that allows people to take any picture of any public figure. Generally speaking the rule of thumb is 'if you can see it, you can shoot it', so if she puts it out there then it's fair game for creepy guys who want to take the picture.

Some places have specific laws that prevent taking photos of a sexual nature, i.e. ass shots, without a person's expressed permission and the author of the article may have had legitimate legal grievances if she was in one of those places. I don't know, but once again that's not what my original comment was about.

I'm not trying to piss anyone off, nor am I encouraging harassment or even rude behavior, the only thing I've said that is remotely opinion based is that I don't feel that someone snapping a pic that you have no input whether or not they are allowed to take anyway is worth dwelling on. Everything else I've said is common knowledge for anyone who knows anything about the rights of public photography.
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Thanks Djlemma, glad to see that someone understands what I'm saying.
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Unread 12-21-2012, 04:05 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Fish-and-Chips-Yum View Post
Pretty much. It all comes down to legal wrong versus moral wrong. Sure, it's legally fine to snap a pic even if someone says no... but you're still pretty much an ass if you do it anyways. At least, that's how I see it.
Well said. For the record, I would respect someone's wishes just the same as you and probably most other people. I simply think it's an interesting topic how often people mistake courtesies for rights.
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Unread 12-21-2012, 04:14 PM   #43
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When the photographer gets so creepy low to the ground when you're in a skirt.. that's when I said no.
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Unread 12-21-2012, 05:07 PM   #44
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What a back and forth conversation! I'm pretty sure that we all understand that it's legal to take a picture of someone even without their permission, given you say it every time you post. Yes it's legal. So what? What are you getting at? Everyone has a right to be angry if someone ignores them and their opinion and does something that you specifically said not to do. It's not like anyone will be bringing said offender to court.

Can we get off this nowhere going argument and go back talking about why we said no to photos?
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Unread 12-21-2012, 05:46 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by 2DLogic View Post
I like to hear myself talking alot [...]I'm not trying to piss anyone off.[...]
Lol, yeah right. You admit you're just posting because you're "bored" and since I assume you have half a brain cell you very much KNEW that telling someone who is pissed off about having their request ignored not to be pissed and that there's technically nothing wrong with it would rub people the wrong way. You wanted to start wank out of boredom (don't try to give me that "I'm just being direct and honest" routine, please spare us all the annoyance).
OR you're socially inept and totally didn't see that coming, in which case I would recommend you not to try and tell other people how to feel, because you're obviously unfamiliar with the topic.
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