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Unread 12-22-2012, 12:26 AM   #46
evaunit01berser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2DLogic View Post
snip.
Here, I'll make it simple.

Usually I will say yes so you now get a free picture

If I say no to a picture, it usually means I am dog tired, fixing something or trying to get somewhere, therefore, my time is now extremely valuable and will cost you to take some of it. I choose the price, that can range from simply ruining your shot to embarrassing you in the middle of a crowd to chucking a water bottle aimed at your camera. The price is determined by my mood and how much of an entitled dick someone acts like.
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Unread 12-22-2012, 01:47 AM   #47
djlemma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish-and-Chips-Yum View Post
Pretty much. It all comes down to legal wrong versus moral wrong. Sure, it's legally fine to snap a pic even if someone says no... but you're still pretty much an ass if you do it anyways. At least, that's how I see it.
Well there's also the issue of being perceived as a creepy photographer. If I take a photo of somebody after they've said no, they might complain to event staff. If I go around and take creepshots (gross) and get caught, somebody might complain to event staff. If I act like an ass in any way, somebody might complain to event staff... And while I wouldn't have been doing anything illegal, the people running the event would have every right to throw me out. At worst they'd have to refund my ticket price.... If there were enough complaints, they might call the police to remove me, at which point if they decided I was being belligerent they might arrest me and take my camera as evidence, who knows what.

So even photographers with no morals shouldn't be dicks... nothing good comes of it.
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Unread 12-22-2012, 03:42 PM   #48
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I've only had one person refuse a photo, and that was because she was extremely camera-shy.
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Unread 12-22-2012, 09:39 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkkiller View Post
Lol, yeah right. You admit you're just posting because you're "bored" and since I assume you have half a brain cell you very much KNEW that telling someone who is pissed off about having their request ignored not to be pissed and that there's technically nothing wrong with it would rub people the wrong way. You wanted to start wank out of boredom (don't try to give me that "I'm just being direct and honest" routine, please spare us all the annoyance).
OR you're socially inept and totally didn't see that coming, in which case I would recommend you not to try and tell other people how to feel, because you're obviously unfamiliar with the topic.
You want to talk about trying to piss people off? Lets look at the posts addressed to me: I've had my opinion belittled, been called a jackass, been misquoted, been partially quoted in an attempt to make it sound like I am saying something that I'm not, and most recently been told that I'm either a liar or am socially inept, among other things.

-I made a comment about not letting something that you have no control of anyway bother you and have been defending my post from people who can't seem to read well enough to realize that I never advocated nor defended the act in the first place.-

Gonna go ahead and post that again since you didn't seem to read it the first time. My opinion is just as valid as anyone else's, if other people don't agree with it that's fine, but that also doesn't mean that I'm not going to defend my opinion.

If people are so bothered by the logic behind my opinion, which is (once again, just for clarity):

-That while it is rude to intentionally go against someone's wishes by photographing them when they ask you not to, it's such a inconsequential act that I see no point in getting upset over something that you have no legal right to dispute anyway.-

Then maybe they should spend more time trying to reform public photography laws and less time complaining on the internet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirayuki~Chan View Post
What a back and forth conversation! I'm pretty sure that we all understand that it's legal to take a picture of someone even without their permission, given you say it every time you post. Yes it's legal. So what? What are you getting at? Everyone has a right to be angry if someone ignores them and their opinion and does something that you specifically said not to do. It's not like anyone will be bringing said offender to court.

Can we get off this nowhere going argument and go back talking about why we said no to photos?
I'm not getting at anything, I stated my opinion and have defended it in numerous times and ways from people jumping down my throat telling me that my opinion is wrong.

It seems that's what most people want anyway, so yes. As far as I'm concerned, you all can go back to talking about why you might say no to a photo request.

Anyone who feels the need to post something antagonizing can save their effort, I will not be responding to it anymore. My opinion has been stated and defended; I'm done feeding the trolls. By the way, that is not meant as a joke on your Homestuck avatar, nor is it directed at you or anyone else who responded in a civil manner.
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Unread 12-23-2012, 01:27 AM   #50
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Such an amusing thread..

Back when I was more into taking hall-cosplay pictures, I remember one time at SakuraCon when I was taking a break from picture-taking, and bought myself a yummy burrito for a long-overdue lunch, I sat down with a couple of friends. Before I could take my first bite, a guy in a costume comes up and asks me to take a picture of him. It's been so long I don't remember what his costume was, but rather than say no, I got up and took a couple of pictures of him, and then went back to eating. He tried to ask me (while I was eating) what I thought of his costume, and I said it looks fine. He continued to talk, and I started to ignore him. He then left, but after the con, he posted on the SakuraCon forums, saying how I was rude to him and wouldn't take his picture. My friends who were with me, were quick to reply to him, saying that he should've let me enjoy my lunch, and I could've said no to him if I wanted to.

Earlier this year at Saboten Con I was taking pictures of one cosplayer, who had a friend with her, and after I took a few pictures, the friend butted-in and said "ok, my turn! my turn!" even though I wasn't done taking pictures of the first cosplayer. This guy was wearing a simple costume, his backpack was on, and he was carrying a lot of toys/plushies with him. I took a couple of pictures to keep him happy, but I could've said no because I thought he was rude for interrupting my original shoot.
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Unread 12-23-2012, 05:32 AM   #51
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@2DLogic: So you really didn't see that coming? Refer to the last line of my post in that case If a bunch of people take offense with what you said, doesn't it cross your mind that the common denominator might be you and not that everyone ~doesn't understaaaaand~? Haha.



@ Eurobeat King: I didn't even think it could be the other way around too! Maybe people don't realise that photographers choose who they want to take pictures of too and don't just shoot everyone who's wearing a costume.
I guess it's harder to say no when you're well known because then people will complain about it...
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Unread 12-24-2012, 10:53 PM   #52
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i had people told me no before, but they would find me later on in the con and ask me if i still want to take a picture of them.
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Unread 12-25-2012, 04:39 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2DLogic View Post
Nope, I'm just bored and am playing devil's advocate about a post in a thread that would otherwise be 50 replies of "Yes, I have also declined photo requests for the same reasons posted above..."

You, however have shown your level of reading comprehension and maturity, or lack thereof... the comment/debate isn't about the action of the photographer taking the picture after the person has asked them not to and whether or not its rude. It's about it not being something worth getting upset about because they didn't have to ask for your permission in the first place. It has everything to do with legal rights.

You have no reasonable expectation of privacy when in public places. In the situation of cosplayers and photographers at conventions, a photographer asking for a photograph of a cosplayer isn't so much as asking "can I take your picture", it's asking "would you like to pose for a picture".

No one is denying that it's rude to intentionally go against someone's wishes by photographing them when they ask you not to, but it's such a inconsequential act that I see no point in dwelling on something that you have no legal right to dispute anyway. It's not even on the level of getting cut off in traffic or someone bumping into you while walking because those have an immediate physical danger associated with them. This is simply a case of 'someone did something that I don't approve of, so they shouldn't be allowed to do it.'
I think Princess Di would disagree about unwanted photos and pushy photographers being inconsequential or harmless.

Now I am no longer addressing you.

I've said no to a group of guys that were laughing and making fun of people. And no to some one that thought shouting "hey hey HEY girl in the blue dress hey letme get your picture." louder and louder and louder was a good way to get a stranger to oblige him. And I might have been a tad rude in reply be cause I had been in the middle talking to someone; someone not rude. Anyone that asks me to do something sexy gets a picture of my back and a bird as I walk away. I am not here to be sexy for you or anyone else, I find it abhorable and most the characers I play would -never- do something sexy in public. I cosplay for myself, not because I like having my picture taken. No. I kinda dislike it a little. But if someone asks nicely I always do my best.

I don't know if i'm scary (i'm tiny like my 11yo nephew and me are same size) or what. Maybe my stern look? But I haven't had anybody take one after I say no, not yet at least.

If someone says no it could be any of a million reasons why. But if you ask and someone says no you should just let it go. You asked and were denied.

I think if anyone takes one after I say no, it will be like Taiga was just released.
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Unread 12-25-2012, 12:22 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2DLogic View Post
--
Thanks Djlemma, glad to see that someone understands what I'm saying.
Indeed. People get really up in arms about photographs, as if shooting a photo was the same thing as shooting a gun...
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Unread 12-25-2012, 02:50 PM   #55
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I don't think I've ever said no to anyone who has asked for a photo... mind you, I rarely ever get asked for Photos anyway.
I have had to decline certain types of poses a couple of times though ... I don't mind doing a little bit of fan service but when people ask for something over the top, it makes me uncomfortable.
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Unread 12-25-2012, 03:21 PM   #56
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I'll just add my say in that as a photographer I've been said no to a few times for hall-cosplay pictures throughout my con years. Either: 1. they were going somewhere and didn't want to be late, 2. they weren't feeling well, 3. their costume was falling-apart, and 4. they didn't want ME (specifically) to take their pictures. No matter what the reason (especially #4) I understood and didn't try to further ask them for the picture. I simply moved on and looked for other cosplayers to take pictures of.
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Unread 12-26-2012, 03:00 AM   #57
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Cosplayers do not owe other people anything more than what is expected of basic human decency just because they're cool-looking.

If you're seriously going to defend people who have no problem with ignoring social cues and breaching the wishes and boundaries of those they want something from, just because you are "bored", there's something wrong with you. A situation that could potentially lead to harassment under the law should not be excused or handwaved with nonsense like "but you can't control it!" or "but it's in a public space anyway!" - which is, by the by, factually incorrect. Most, if not all venues that generally get used for cons, like hotels, convention centres, etc., are private property. And you know what? If someone is going to ignore your boundaries and wishes on something that simple, who's to say they won't exhibit that with other social behaviors and become a bully or harasser?

Posing for photos is voluntary. If the person agrees to do it, great. If not, you don't have consent, and while snapping that picture anyway isn't illegal, it's sure as hell creepy, rude, and generally crappy. You'll live without the photo. Exercise a little basic human decency. That's it. There is no point to challenging people's boundaries when they have the freedom to decline, unless you're just a really needy creep who wants attention. "No thank you" does not mean "convince me". Save your mansplaining for someone who cares.
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Last edited by jukebox : 12-26-2012 at 03:02 AM.
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Unread 12-26-2012, 02:50 PM   #58
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One other note on Photography is that if you take a picture of me, I would like to see it. I think it would be nice if people would try more often to exchange information about where to find said photos after they've been taken.
When I was at Anime Expo many of the Photographers were really good about handing out cards and stuff like that so that Cosplayers could access the Photos. Even if you don't have a card or something, it would be great if Photographers could at least say "Hey, I'll post these up on the Convention Forum, my screenname is *insert name here*." etc ... Because there have been times where I had my picture taken but I never ever did get to see the photos.
Perhaps it's a little off topic, but I do believe that if someone agrees to let you take their photo, you should at least let them have access to it afterwards.
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Unread 12-27-2012, 01:49 PM   #59
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Ooh, debate. Fancy.

I personally have never said no to a picture except in one instance. It was not when I was in the middle of eating lunch. No, I posed with my fried chicken. It was not when I was in an elevator. No, I pretended to press all the buttons for the photograph. The only time I refused a photograph was when this creeper guy kept hounding my friend for pictures, and started taking pictures of people around us to get her in the frame. The poor kid. When he walked into the restaurant we were having lunch at, we couldn't help but laugh nervously and put our hoods up while we ate.

The kicker? We weren't even in costume that day. D:
I guess so long as the photographer is polite/nice/whatever in asking for photos, I have no problem with a picture.

Great idea, Raven-sama. I've never seen a picture of myself taken at a convention, even after looking. I think I'll start asking for people's usernames when they snap a pic, maybe even get a conversation going and make a friend.
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Unread 12-27-2012, 08:34 PM   #60
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I was sitting on the floor by the dealer's hall at AX2011, trying to keep myself hydrated because I was in full latex, when a group of guys asked for a picture. I was gross and sweaty and holding a water bottle so I asked if they could wait a minute while I freshened up. They said yes. So bing bam boom oil blotting paper concealer and 45 seconds later I'm good to go, water bottle on the ground, and they took a few shots.

It was a civilized, patient matter of courtesy. My two cents on this matter is that whether you're in or out of costume, whether you've given permission or not, when you go to a con anyone can take a picture of you whenever they want. And from the ones that ask first and respect your answer, you can make good friends and conversation and a happier experience. On the other hand, people who join in when a crowd is taking pictures and leave without a word, or people who take shots of you when they think you can't see are rude, but unavoidable. I'm fine with both, but the way I treat the former is of course much more polite and generous than how I would treat the latter. Which is kind of on them, really.

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