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Unread 01-23-2013, 01:20 AM   #16
noogz256
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that's the only way you can really do it. if you wanna you can always calculate how much you need for a week and go there. but you are right as long as you keep your deficit it shouldn't matter. im not saying eat a lot less...just a little.

your examples though...are just conjecture. im not dealing with a 1400 cal woman...she probably doesn't need to lose weight. just from looking at cals alone. i'd give advice person to person not just overall. and yes...you could benefit but did you take into account if you create a huge deficit of metabolic damage? why does everything have to be quick? lose weight in smaller increments. he's not a bodybuilder he's just wanting to lose some weight. if he does what i suggested and after a few months stops losing weight, i'd ask what he was doing currently and adjust accordingly.
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Unread 01-23-2013, 06:40 AM   #17
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But what you're suggesting he does would be a bigger deficit than what I'm suggesting he does unless his maintenance is over 5k calories.
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Unread 01-23-2013, 10:18 AM   #18
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Going to try breaking this down.

My ultimate goal is to reduce my body fat percentage. The method I'm trying out is a combination of Alternate Day Fasting and normal weight lifting and cardio. Based on what I understand, the weight lifting day should correspond with the regular eating day. My first order of business is to find out my TDEE/maintenance calories on my regular eating/weight-lifting day and check this maybe once per month to see if it has changed.

The discussion at hand is determining the amount of calorie deficit I should aim for in terms of calorie intake. In this particular case, I do believe in a dynamic rather than a static approach, which is pretty much rdmguy's 10% of TDEE.

Let's give a hypothetical situation:

Say I discover my TDEE to be around 3000 calories. With a deficit of 10% of TDEE, my intake target should be 2700 calories. After I consume these calories, does it matter how many calories I attempt to lose via exercise?

I guess my confusion is the definition of TDEE. My impression is that it means how many calories I use on a regular day aka the combination of my BMR and calories burned doing my regular day-to-day activities. However, if exercise becomes part of my daily routine, does this change my target calorie intake?

My thoughts: by increasing my target calorie intake with regular exercise, I'd be encouraging more muscle growth with emphasis on weight training. By keeping my target calorie intake the same and introducing regular exercise, I'd be increasing my fat burn with emphasis on cardio. Is this correct?
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Unread 01-23-2013, 10:37 AM   #19
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TDEE is total expenditure, so it includes both daily activity and training. You got the math idea right. It wouldn't be a horrible idea to maintain the same deficit every day because you will likely be doing cardio on your off days.

But yes, TDEE includes training. Be careful to not overestimate it, a lot of people do.

Trying to calculate calories and subtracting them based on exercise done pretty much leaves double the room for error. There's really no way you ballpark how many calories you really burned in a specific session at home. It's much simple, for me at least, to get a grand total and just eat above/below that depending on my goal.

And you are correct. The reason why some people can lose weight without adjusting their diet and just start walking is because at the previous TDEE they were maintaining, but the inclusion of walking increased their TDEE while they did not eat more to compensate, thus putting them in a deficit.
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Last edited by rndmguy : 01-23-2013 at 10:56 AM.
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Unread 01-23-2013, 11:43 AM   #20
Kiro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rndmguy View Post
It wouldn't be a horrible idea to maintain the same deficit every day
That's also where I'm confused. Maybe it's because I don't fully understand ADF.

Let's go back to the previous example. Assuming I only do cardio every day and my TDEE is 3000. On a non-fasting day, target calorie intake is 2700 with a calorie deficit of 300. On a fasting day, what should be my target calorie intake?

Last edited by Kiro : 01-23-2013 at 11:47 AM.
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Unread 01-23-2013, 01:50 PM   #21
rndmguy
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As close to 0 as possible. When you do the full day fast you only do it once or twice a week. If it were me doing it I would increase my daily calories a bit to compensate. Just remember that there's no point where your body rolls over like phone minutes.

So let's say your goal is to consume 18.9k calories a week. You reach the same total eating 2.7k calories over 7 days or 3.8k calories over 5 days.
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Unread 01-23-2013, 03:24 PM   #22
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Alright. That's what I thought.

Like I originally said, I'm going to try true ADF at first (starting this Sunday) and see if I can last until Katsucon. Will post my progress here to see if you guys think I need to make any adjustments. If anything, it will probably be to eat more.
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Unread 01-23-2013, 04:03 PM   #23
rndmguy
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A couple of weeks may not be enough time for some really noticeable results, but if you're doing it for mental discipline then you've got my full support. The first couple of weeks to such an adjustment can be pretty difficult.
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Unread 01-23-2013, 06:58 PM   #24
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Yeah, I know these things take time and I know the transition will be difficult. I'm not expecting a miracle, just some indication that something positive is happening. For example, I noticed that when I had a reduced calorie intake last week, I would be instantly awake when my alarm went off. Usually, like now and beforehand, I'd press snooze on all three of my alarm clocks (which are all placed completely out of reach from my bed) for at least an hour before reluctantly getting out of bed without any recollection of them going off in the first place (they go off in five and nine minute intervals aka I'd hit the snooze button 26+ times and might only remember the last one or two). Even something as small as this is enough for me.
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Unread 01-23-2013, 08:30 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiro View Post
Going to try breaking this down.

My ultimate goal is to reduce my body fat percentage. The method I'm trying out is a combination of Alternate Day Fasting and normal weight lifting and cardio. Based on what I understand, the weight lifting day should correspond with the regular eating day. My first order of business is to find out my TDEE/maintenance calories on my regular eating/weight-lifting day and check this maybe once per month to see if it has changed.

The discussion at hand is determining the amount of calorie deficit I should aim for in terms of calorie intake. In this particular case, I do believe in a dynamic rather than a static approach, which is pretty much rdmguy's 10% of TDEE.

Let's give a hypothetical situation:

Say I discover my TDEE to be around 3000 calories. With a deficit of 10% of TDEE, my intake target should be 2700 calories. After I consume these calories, does it matter how many calories I attempt to lose via exercise?

I guess my confusion is the definition of TDEE. My impression is that it means how many calories I use on a regular day aka the combination of my BMR and calories burned doing my regular day-to-day activities. However, if exercise becomes part of my daily routine, does this change my target calorie intake?

My thoughts: by increasing my target calorie intake with regular exercise, I'd be encouraging more muscle growth with emphasis on weight training. By keeping my target calorie intake the same and introducing regular exercise, I'd be increasing my fat burn with emphasis on cardio. Is this correct?
Check out leangains. One of the few websites dealing with fasting while weight training.
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Unread 01-23-2013, 08:50 PM   #26
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If you are trying to put on muscle as well, you should definitely be sure you are doing strength training on your regular eating days.
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Unread 01-28-2013, 06:14 AM   #27
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Day 2

Weight: 178 lbs
Chest: 39 inches
Waist: 35 inches
Hips: 40.5 inches
Calve: 17 inches

Not going to get a chance to post a pic today, but I'll post a pic tomorrow as a starting reference. If there are any measurements I'm missing, please let me know.

Made it through fasting yesterday without a problem. Felt the most hunger around 2pm. I loosely interpreted "day" as a 24-hour period and ate dinner at my regular time, roughly 24-hours after my last meal. Only drank water.

Edit:

Day 3

Weight: 177 lbs

Front Pic
Side Pic

Yes, I shaved my pits and chest...

Unfortunately, I did not get any exercise done yesterday. Today is a fasting day.

Last edited by Kiro : 01-29-2013 at 07:13 AM.
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Unread 01-29-2013, 05:19 PM   #28
VicVII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiro View Post
Going to try breaking this down.

My ultimate goal is to reduce my body fat percentage. The method I'm trying out is a combination of Alternate Day Fasting and normal weight lifting and cardio. Based on what I understand, the weight lifting day should correspond with the regular eating day. My first order of business is to find out my TDEE/maintenance calories on my regular eating/weight-lifting day and check this maybe once per month to see if it has changed.
I have been IFing for a while now and weight training at the same time, is is down to the person if they can workout while fasting. I fast for 19 hours a day and take in about 1500-2000 calories a day (i have to go quite low on calories unfortunately) but if you have a great metabolism then you can go higher. I'm not sure about alternate days with the fasting deal but if it suits you and you see results at the speed you want then go for it!

I work out 3 times a week (mon, wed, fri) and on each workout ill add an hour of cardio in, i tend to mix it up because tredmilling it for an hour is lame in the most extreme. make sure you dont eat for an hour after working out too so you can capitalise on your body burning all those calories!
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Unread 01-29-2013, 07:12 PM   #29
Kiro
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So, how has IF been working for you?

Had a successful fast today. Only calories I took in before the 24-hour mark was from a protein shake. I've only been doing this for a few days now, but it's been easier than anticipated.

I don't know if we should take into account body type, but I'm fairly convinced that I have the traits of a mesomorph.

Edit:

Day 4
Weight: 176lbs

Didn't do cardio yesterday. Today is a regular eating day.

Last edited by Kiro : 01-30-2013 at 09:05 AM.
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Unread 01-30-2013, 09:38 AM   #30
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Hi Kiro. I wanted to weigh in on this because I recently lost a lot of weight based on changing how I was eating. You really shouldn't be looking at fasting as your way to lose weight. It's not as healthy as you think. Here's the punch line of this joke: in the long run, if your body feels like it's not going to be getting calories, it will actually start to store fat longer to help you survive on fewer calories. In fact, you should eat within an hour of getting up, because the longer you wait, the more your metabolism slows down to (again) compensate for lack of calories.

Instead of eating less, eat different. Eat fewer carbs (but don't cut them out!) and more protein. Don't eat within a minimum of 2 hours before you go to bed, and try not to eat heavy (physically heavy, not necessarily calorie heavy) foods at dinner. Eat things high in fiber, because fiber helps your body break down food more easily and quickly. If you're trying to lose weight, the best thing you can do for yourself teach yourself good eating habits and not try to trick your body with some of these crazy weight loss techniques people do. Like I said, this comes from my own personal experience.

I used this awesome app my friend told me about, called LoseIt (the web interface is http://www.loseit.com) to assist with my own weight loss. It's very similar to Weight Watchers, except it's FREE and it counts pure calories instead of giving you points. I would highly recommend checking it out.
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