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Unread 04-02-2013, 08:57 PM   #61
cuda
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Originally Posted by Lithium Flower View Post
Are you 5 fucking years old?
Do you need people to carry an 'official cosplayer card' so you can rest assured none of those 'fakes' are getting all up in your favorite cartoon? Are we going to start fingerprinting all the 'legit' cosplayers and making a big database of people who look at a character design and say "I like this but don't know who they are" so we can make sure they don't invade the precious sanctity of wearing spandex booty shorts in public?

Tell me how amazing and super great you are because you can name every character on Battlestar Galactica and someone else just liked the costume.

Dictionary.com isn't going to conventions and spending money on costumes.



When can we just murder this stupid nonsensical bullshit idea of 'real' versus 'fake' cosplayers? Because it needs to go die in a fire pit.
well now, I'm not the king of all cosplayer as you might think I am. I'm just someone who cosplays and has my own opinion on cosplay guideline. I'm sure you have your own thoughts and exception for cosplay guideline. In fact I might not fit in your own guideline.

Your right, Dictionary.com isn't going to conventions and buying costumes. It's the cosplayers that suggest the word to Dictionary.com that spend their own money on their own costumes and the conventions.

on top of that, why are you saying I'm five years old, is it because I messed up on one word or is it the fact that my views don't match up with yours. I also like how you used "fucking" in the middle of that question as if you were try to say that your more mature then me. but you did ask me a question so, I guess I will answer it. you don't have enough fingers and toe to count up to my age.

By the way, I'm a star trek TNG fan, But I don't think you need to know every character name in order to cosplay as data.
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Unread 04-02-2013, 10:40 PM   #62
Kelley
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Originally Posted by TheFontBandit View Post
It IS, however, the right of the OP to say to that photographer, "That's not my thing. It makes me uncomfortable and I don't want to participate in this project", and they should not be shamed for that either.
Definitely. I think this thread blew up because it's not really clear in the OP what they're implying is supposed to be "giving a cosplay a bad name" - and most of the conclusions that could be drawn and have been drawn are riddled with issues.

Not directed specifically at you, but :

"Poor-quality costume porn" is one thing, although I don't think it's going to give cosplayers a bad name, either. Although it's not even clear what the situation is. The logic is also flawed - "they'd think we were dressing naked like Playboy bunnies" - no one is going to think that about all the costumes aren't there that aren't remotely sexual, period. If someone looks at a full Master Chief, Cloud, Yuna, Kiki's Delivery Service, et cetera costume and think "wow that's some Playboy stuff" they have a serious malfunction in their ability to think logically. Some characters DO have costume designed that look like something a stripper or adult model would wear - but not having a "cosporn" magazine isn't having an impact on that.

Also, I've seen threads here about cosplayers who want to do real Playboy Bunny costumes - AND the "Bunny" is a HUGE motif in anime and manga.



They're more covered than most people are at the beach and the costumes are actually incredibly challenging to make well due to the fact you need to make a corset and make it fit, be flattering, you need to make bust support and shape over the bust, and you need it to fit while having a piece of fabric that goes under the crotch. It's not easy.



This was in Sailor Moon and it's in even more anime and manga as more than just a cute one-time picture. This was drawn by the original artist and it was published with the official mangas.

I also take issue with "strippers, of all people" - strippers are just people who do a job. If the job is stripping, why WOULDN'T you hire strippers ? Strippers aren't all or even mostly "stupid girls" who couldn't possibly understand the idea of "getting in character". Yes, some come from bad situations and didn't have much choice and that's a real issue - but there are strippers out there who have bachelor's degrees (though degrees and book knowledge aren't a measure of someone's worth), who can do advanced math, who know a lot about tax law, who have pet dogs and cats and birds, who like cooking, who like working on cars, who have hobbies in no way related to the adult industry. Some strippers even do "real", serious cosplay that may not be remotely sexy because cosplay is a hobby and you don't need to make everything you do work-related. Some strippers are only in the line of work temporarily - some have gone on to work for the government in totally non-stripping-related positions, some have become doctors and surgeons, some would have become great teachers if this country wasn't so uptight about women's sexuality that they can't wrap their head around the idea that a woman can have once stripped and still be around children because those women understand and have no desire to pole-dance in math class, anyway. Should no one who's been a fire-fighter be able to be a teacher because they might try to extinguish the children ? Gah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuda View Post
The real deal is better. Cosplayer have an eye for detail, They know what the characters ability, attitude and mind set is. You can't get that kind of detail and emotion of someone who is just wearing some random costume.
"Portray" can be as simple as just modelling with knowing nothing about the character. If a model is any good they will work with sources and with the direction of the photographer/director to "get in character" if that's what's desired.

Plus, no one needs to be in-character all the time or even ever at all - they could have seen all ten seasons of whatever show and still not want to do the "in character" aspect of it.

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Originally Posted by Lithium Flower View Post
Do you need people to carry an 'official cosplayer card' so you can rest assured none of those 'fakes' are getting all up in your favorite cartoon? .


Remember, the difference of a single "E" can mean the difference between being seen as a murdering psycho and being the hero Gotham deserves.

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You're dressing up like a goddamned cartoon character, I think you can get off your high horse for five seconds.
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Unread 04-02-2013, 11:55 PM   #63
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I understand most of the points of view here, and am very open to the ideas, but what I don't understand is where all this flaming and politics came in?

No one was shaming anyone until someone took too much offense to something as far as what I read.

now, is there a way to delete threads because all this venom being spit at eachother is getting out of hand :/
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Unread 04-03-2013, 12:05 AM   #64
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What politics ? I've seen some serious subjects discussed, but they're all relevant to the thread content.

And, yes, "slut shaming" did happen as soon as the first page and first response - and it just got worse from there. I don't think that's necessarily "politics", just part of our culture - and it's good that people are discussing it and fighting it instead of just taking it for granted.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 01:01 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by KuroNekoCosplay View Post
I understand most of the points of view here, and am very open to the ideas, but what I don't understand is where all this flaming and politics came in?

No one was shaming anyone until someone took too much offense to something as far as what I read.

now, is there a way to delete threads because all this venom being spit at eachother is getting out of hand :/
I'm sorry!

I'm done, I have burned one of my days off to battle and get feed back. I can now have a chuckle about the hole deal and get on with my life.

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Originally Posted by Kelley View Post
And, yes, "slut shaming" did happen as soon as the first page and first response - and it just got worse from there. I don't think that's necessarily "politics", just part of our culture - and it's good that people are discussing it and fighting it instead of just taking it for granted.
Indeed, Hopeful this discussion has some impact on our everyday life and not just when cosplay. I think I have a different view of thing now then I did at the beginning
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Unread 04-03-2013, 01:10 AM   #66
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I am glad you feel that way, I think it's a healthy approach to things .

I know that once I felt very differently and it wasn't until I encountered people speaking out that I saw how unfair and toxic the things I'd said before were. I'm always open to changing my mind on a subject and I know there are still ideas that I, personally, struggle with that I'm not sure how I feel about or that I know are wrong but sometimes still think anyway. It's a process and I'm willing to bet I'll be going through it my entire life.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 01:58 AM   #67
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"Idols" and "AV Idols" are two different things. Actresses and Adult Actresses are two different things. Models and Fetish Models are two different things. Why can't Cosplay and Cosporn be separated?

Porn spin-off OVAs normally are titled slightly different or have a colon and some other sub title with it. Keeping the lines clear.

I think a few people are upset/feel passionately about this because of their personality types. They might feel others should carefully put forth a good 'role model' for the public too, so that the term 'cosplay' is well thought of and gains more acceptance. Some people receive odd looks or outright scorn for being involved in cosplay so it is easy to then think it's the people that behave a bit more.... ummm how to say it nice, liberally that cause them to get those sideways glances. They want everyone to treasure and take care of cosplay's public image so it can keep growing up big and strong! :3

I'm not policing public opinion, I am part of the public and this is just my opinion. I thought a forum is meant for people to exchange opinions, right? Or did i miss the memo and a forum is really just a place to tell everyone what they want to hear? Nothing wrong with expressing yourself passionately in conversation with others.

No one is gonna be 'policed' because of a few people on the internet discussing a topic.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 02:15 AM   #68
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But by conforming to the norms of an unhealthy system to make cosplay look better, you are simply becoming "big and strong" within a system that hurts people. Wouldn't it be better to make a system where everyone can do what they want with no one being looked down upon at all ?

I respect you as a person and I understand why you are saying what you're saying, but I feel like your solution is only solving part of the problem and is basically "save ourselves" at the expense of those who need "help" even more. It might be good for us as cosplayers, but I'm not willing to do it at the expense of others - I have never done a "sexy" costume and never will do so - I will never work in the adult industry - but I will not let any of those people continue to be looked down upon just so that people might say better things about *me*.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 04:44 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Kelley View Post
But by conforming to the norms of an unhealthy system to make cosplay look better, you are simply becoming "big and strong" within a system that hurts people. Wouldn't it be better to make a system where everyone can do what they want with no one being looked down upon at all ?

I respect you as a person and I understand why you are saying what you're saying, but I feel like your solution is only solving part of the problem and is basically "save ourselves" at the expense of those who need "help" even more. It might be good for us as cosplayers, but I'm not willing to do it at the expense of others - I have never done a "sexy" costume and never will do so - I will never work in the adult industry - but I will not let any of those people continue to be looked down upon just so that people might say better things about *me*.
Huh? Unhealthy system? Letting people know that they are about to buy or click on porn with clear wording differentiating the two is unhealthy? AV Idols are clearly labeled yet they are still popular with huge followings. Does it hurt them or boost their sales when i.e. "Akiko to make her AV debut this issue!" is on the cover of a magazine?
(I say this because the one cosplay group I have been invited to gave no hint that they do that sort of thing by their name or their flyers. NONE. Yet when I started to get in contact with them, 'mature audience photos' are clearly what they wanted. It's not that I feel compelled to conform, I'm modest while in the public view by nature.)

"Where everyone can do what they want without being looked down on?" That sounds dangerous to me. It is because society frowns on some stuff that society stays orderly. But we are getting into some philosophy territory now. ^^

The only thing I'm looking down on right now is exploiting the key word "cosplay" for traffic/money when removing clothing clearly seems to be the opposite of dressing up.
Greedy greedy D:< Greed is still bad, right?

I must be missing something.
No really, please do explain or pm me . I'm curious. Watashi Kininarimasu.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 05:45 AM   #70
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There is nothing wrong with doing cosplay porn or sexy shoots but it's not all that cosplay is. The hobby is about sewing, crafting and appreciating series and characters you like. If someone wants to help others appreciate them by bringing them 3D versions of the character to fap to and the girl agrees to it, there's nothing odd going on there.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 05:57 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KuroNekoCosplay View Post
I understand most of the points of view here, and am very open to the ideas, but what I don't understand is where all this flaming and politics came in?

No one was shaming anyone until someone took too much offense to something as far as what I read. would have seen it by now.


now, is there a way to delete threads because all this venom being spit at eachother is getting out of hand :/
Actually in a way you where shaming as a Cosplay Photographer you implied that any Tog that does certain style of photo's are/where giving cosplayers a bad name. As I pointed out many different times this is far from the truth.

As for politics trust me their has been none creeped yet into this discussion you would know.

I think the lesson that everyone can take from this discussion is quite simple throwing around certain statement about what a person or group does while might be your own opinion it's not the collective opinion.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 06:32 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Misseeriechan View Post
Huh? Unhealthy system? Letting people know that they are about to buy or click on porn with clear wording differentiating the two is unhealthy? AV Idols are clearly labeled yet they are still popular with huge followings. Does it hurt them or boost their sales when i.e. "Akiko to make her AV debut this issue!" is on the cover of a magazine?
(I say this because the one cosplay group I have been invited to gave no hint that they do that sort of thing by their name or their flyers. NONE. Yet when I started to get in contact with them, 'mature audience photos' are clearly what they wanted. It's not that I feel compelled to conform, I'm modest while in the public view by nature.)

"Where everyone can do what they want without being looked down on?" That sounds dangerous to me. It is because society frowns on some stuff that society stays orderly. But we are getting into some philosophy territory now. ^^

The only thing I'm looking down on right now is exploiting the key word "cosplay" for traffic/money when removing clothing clearly seems to be the opposite of dressing up.
Greedy greedy D:< Greed is still bad, right?

I must be missing something.
No really, please do explain or pm me . I'm curious. Watashi Kininarimasu.
The unhealthy system of looking down upon pornography, sexuality, women's sexuality (which came up quickly in the thread) - evidenced in that it would "make cosplay look bad" if cosplay were associated with pornography (although I really don't think that would happen from one niche magazine - and since there is porn of almost any topic it seems silly, too - there is a famous porn spoof of "Pirates of the Caribbean" but no one thinks the original is por or that people dressing up as the original movie characters are making a statement about porn) and that girls who do sexy cosplays are "slutty" and should stick to some other moral system that precludes them being "sexy" in public.

I think it's fine and important to make sure things are properly labelled so that people can make their own choices.

I agree that some things must be looked down up, but only those that hurt others. We should look down upon things like murder and animal abuse - but not people peacefully expressing themselves.

I'm not sure how I feel about the photographer in the OP using "cosplay" as a keyword since I'm not 100% sure what exactly was going on. It would be silly and misleading if the magazine didn't even include actual cosplay. :s
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Unread 04-03-2013, 06:52 AM   #73
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I also like how you used "fucking" in the middle of that question as if you were try to say that your more mature then me. but you did ask me a question so, I guess I will answer it. you don't have enough fingers and toe to count up to my age.
Don't be disingenuous. You know she used the word "fucking" to show exasperation.

So you're over twenty. What's your point?
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Unread 04-03-2013, 12:04 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Scorpion89 View Post
Actually in a way you where shaming as a Cosplay Photographer you implied that any Tog that does certain style of photo's are/where giving cosplayers a bad name. As I pointed out many different times this is far from the truth.

As for politics trust me their has been none creeped yet into this discussion you would know.

I think the lesson that everyone can take from this discussion is quite simple throwing around certain statement about what a person or group does while might be your own opinion it's not the collective opinion.
Yeah no, that's not what I was doing. What I was saying was, I don't personally think cosplay is about throwing a random costume on someone who knows nothing about the hobby, or wants to, or even cares to, and than calling it the main reason people cosplay. A magazine that is ALL ABOUT sleezy costumes, nothing more, and calling it the reason people cosplay is to cosplay like this.
And I don't have a problem with sleezy costumes, I own three or more of them, and wear them to photoshoots, cons etc.

The reason why I don't believe that *most* strippers wouldn't cosplay is because the media shows us the stripper life of cocaine etc. I've seen MANY models who strip. They are excellent at both. But I don't think that most would enjoy the hobby of cosplay like many of us do, they'd just dress it for money which ok, that's fine but that's not my style. I'm not 'shaming' anyone. In fact I hate that word when it's used like that. People are allowed to have different views on things, and maybe some people are more conservative than others and wouldn't want to be grouped into a crowd that's like that, well, you know, someone with previous experience with abuse for 4 freaking years wouldn't want to be shown off quote 'specifically for single men' as my client said.

So yes, I backed out of the project because I want to keep my costumes as in-character as possible. I'm sorry but, hocking the skirt up on Jill Valentine and taking her shirt off isn't her character.

Sorry for this rant but, I created this forum post to get opinions, and I was enjoying it until social justice got involved and people started getting up on their high horses about everything.

Also, a lot of people agreed with me early on, and the ones who didn't, I GLADLY read your replies and enjoyed reading your opinions.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 12:19 PM   #75
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annnd here's my last statement.

"People need to realize that not everyone in the world who doesn't perfectly 100% adhere to all the exact social rules is out to ruin their lives and discriminate against their people".
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