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Unread 02-02-2005, 04:09 PM   #1
Amy the Yu
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Question Too many cons

Starting a proper thread in the right forum for a topic that has been brought up in many other threads.

Previous discussion can be found here:
http://forums.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=48488

In the span of a couple of weeks, the already high number of conventions in the GTA has gone from 6 to 8 (and that's not counting GCAF, which is still relatively close by). Just a weeee bit rediculous.

Not 2 years ago, the area only hosted Anime North and CN Anime as actual anime conventions, and CN was considered debatable as CN was a 3-in-1 con (comics, sci-fi and anime divisions).

Since then, in chronological order, the following has surfaced and made themselves known (although many have yet to actually start):
1. November/December Toronto Anime Con (DTAC)
2. March Toronto Anime Con (MTAC)
3. Northern Anime Festival
4. Garden City Anime Festival (yet to debut)
5. Con no Baka (yet to debut)
6. ? (unknown con located in Richmond Hill, yet to debut)

We were considered lucky to have two reasonably sized cons in the area already, and while it's nice to have something to do during the rest of the year, I fail to see why we need this many.

I'm sure that even if the 3 that are set to begin in 2005 NEVER come to be, the majority of the people here would still be plenty happy with what we have already, especially since even some of the non-anime cons in the area are starting to put more focus on anime (ie. Toronto Trek and Ad Astra).

Many of the new cons are also poorly timed. Actually, all 3 that are set to begin in 2005 are just so. GCAF is set on the same weekend as Toronto Trek, and just a week off from NAF. Con no Baka is set right at the beginning of final exam time for most university/college students. And the new one just mentioned in Richmond Hill will be smack middle of finals for university/college students.

AN and CN have both made top 10 largest cons in North America for 2005, AN taking an amazing 4th place!!! Why can't all these people who feel they need to run a convention in order to feel fulfilled go and try joining staff (or even volunteering) at AN, which is grossly understaffed and still growing at a frightening rate?

There are lots of other people more qualified than me to cover all the other issues involved with running a con and problems that these new cons are sure to face, so I'll step down and allow others to make those points.

This might be slightly off topic in the land of cosplay, but if threads about hotel rooms and car pools to cons are allowed, then this should be considered relevant too...
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Unread 02-02-2005, 05:01 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy the Yu
Starting a proper thread in the right forum for a topic that has been brought up in many other threads.

Previous discussion can be found here:
http://forums.cosplay.com/showthread.php?t=48488

In the span of a couple of weeks, the already high number of conventions in the GTA has gone from 6 to 8 (and that's not counting GCAF, which is still relatively close by). Just a weeee bit rediculous.

Not 2 years ago, the area only hosted Anime North and CN Anime as actual anime conventions, and CN was considered debatable as CN was a 3-in-1 con (comics, sci-fi and anime divisions).

Since then, in chronological order, the following has surfaced and made themselves known (although many have yet to actually start):
1. November/December Toronto Anime Con (DTAC)
2. March Toronto Anime Con (MTAC)
3. Northern Anime Festival
4. Garden City Anime Festival (yet to debut)
5. Con no Baka (yet to debut)
6. ? (unknown con located in Richmond Hill, yet to debut)

We were considered lucky to have two reasonably sized cons in the area already, and while it's nice to have something to do during the rest of the year, I fail to see why we need this many.

I'm sure that even if the 3 that are set to begin in 2005 NEVER come to be, the majority of the people here would still be plenty happy with what we have already, especially since even some of the non-anime cons in the area are starting to put more focus on anime (ie. Toronto Trek and Ad Astra).

Many of the new cons are also poorly timed. Actually, all 3 that are set to begin in 2005 are just so. GCAF is set on the same weekend as Toronto Trek, and just a week off from NAF. Con no Baka is set right at the beginning of final exam time for most university/college students. And the new one just mentioned in Richmond Hill will be smack middle of finals for university/college students.

AN and CN have both made top 10 largest cons in North America for 2005, AN taking an amazing 4th place!!! Why can't all these people who feel they need to run a convention in order to feel fulfilled go and try joining staff (or even volunteering) at AN, which is grossly understaffed and still growing at a frightening rate?

There are lots of other people more qualified than me to cover all the other issues involved with running a con and problems that these new cons are sure to face, so I'll step down and allow others to make those points.

This might be slightly off topic in the land of cosplay, but if threads about hotel rooms and car pools to cons are allowed, then this should be considered relevant too...
Our con is more of a private con... cos our school has over 2000 people, we're just holding it for them in Richmond Hill, because most of them can't make it to AN or CN or any of the conventions.

As well, we're a high school, so it wouldn't apply to university/college people.
 
Unread 02-02-2005, 05:11 PM   #3
Amy the Yu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiyoon
Our con is more of a private con... cos our school has over 2000 people, we're just holding it for them in Richmond Hill, because most of them can't make it to AN or CN or any of the conventions.

As well, we're a high school, so it wouldn't apply to university/college people.
That's good to hear. Private events are always enjoyable, although watch out for budget if there's a lot that's not covered by sponsors cause this kind of thing tailors to a specific taste. (Even with a lot of interest in anime now a days, there are still many who don't want to pay to go to an event when they can sit at home and watch it on YTV.)
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Unread 02-02-2005, 06:34 PM   #4
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Obviously the organizers think there is a market out there or they wouldn't do out to start these new conventions.

Hobbystar is known for trying to rake in as much money as they can from these venues.. -_-" I am proud to say that I have never "paid" to attend any Hobbystar run convention... hehe. (I've never been to CNA - life conflicts with that on a yearly basis, but I "visited" MTAC last year.)

I don't have much interest in going to the new conventions. I'd much prefer to support the older, more established conventions in our city. AN, Toronto Trek and Ad Astra.

If you have such a huge problem with there being so many cons, just don't go. There's no need to rant about it.
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Unread 02-03-2005, 12:09 AM   #5
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It's not a matter of going or not going, we're trying to get the word out to people that the market is not infinite, and there is a LIMIT to how many cons the area can handle. They may THINK that there is a market, but I suspect that a lot of the people starting up new conventions haven't really considered the situation fully.

And we're trying to get people to understand that it is far better for the community to help out the existing conventions than starting tons of new ones.
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Unread 02-03-2005, 01:15 AM   #6
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Quality > Quantity
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Unread 02-03-2005, 01:26 AM   #7
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Uhh...why is it Amy always starts such threads and they always turn into bashing threads, I think this Amy might need to rethink what she or he says.

Now...I'm reading..and reading and this my opinon and don't flame me, cause I live in a free country and that's allow. I also want to state..I AM NOT APART OF ANY OF THE CONS MENTIONS STAFF..ahem:

Quote:
and that's not counting GCAF, which is still relatively close
Dude..saying that GCAF is so close by is like staying Niagara is apart of Toronto and really thats' a poor thing to say. 1. untrue and 2. It's not that close.

Quote:
AN and CN have both made top 10 largest cons in North America for 2005, AN taking an amazing 4th place!!! Why can't all these people who feel they need to run a convention in order to feel fulfilled go and try joining staff (or even volunteering) at AN, which is grossly understaffed and still growing at a frightening rate?
Uhh..okay...your point? Lets not put dirt on them as well and dance around all over them. what is with you in putting other con's down. Think about it, they do it because there is a huge fanbase who either 1. never heard of AN, 2.Never knew there were such things and 3. Toronto is a pain city to travel too.

Quote:
Obviously the organizers think there is a market out there or they wouldn't do out to start these new conventions.

Hobbystar is known for trying to rake in as much money as they can from these venues.. -_-" I am proud to say that I have never "paid" to attend any Hobbystar run convention... hehe. (I've never been to CNA - life conflicts with that on a yearly basis, but I "visited" MTAC last year.)

I don't have much interest in going to the new conventions. I'd much prefer to support the older, more established conventions in our city. AN, Toronto Trek and Ad Astra.

If you have such a huge problem with there being so many cons, just don't go. There's no need to rant about it.
Excatly, well said. *claps*

Quote:
there is a LIMIT to how many cons the area can handle. They may THINK that there is a market, but I suspect that a lot of the people starting up new conventions haven't really considered the situation fully.
Uh yeah, the con GCAF should of been the limit I mean why are they all in southern ontario? Oh yeah I forgot..were mini america here..

Quote:
Actually, all 3 that are set to begin in 2005 are just so. GCAF is set on the same weekend as Toronto Trek, and just a week off from NAF.
I agree with Nagii, TT dates were not posted on their website at the time these dates were chosen and I quote from the funding thread in the GCAF forum, GCAF's dates were decided before June and were not posted until after the centre was booked in July. Second NAF's date was said after GCAF booked..

The truth is your all whiny and running scared.As soon as another con comes into the picture you run for the hills screaming OMFG!!!! Our people! Our crowd! What if's and what not's. you know what. NO ONE CARES!

Sad but true, Stop hogging up the forums for your useless whining...boo who AN is understaff, boo who a new con, boo who waaaaaaaaah. You know what, it's abit trieding and I bet your doing ALOT worse then helping, use your brains. AN and CN are old. We can't have those 2 forever, I doubt Mcdonalds or Burger King came out with their restrurants that they fought they were gonna be the only ones on the market.

I travel to AN which I might say is 8 hours away, I'm gonna go to NAF and I'm gonna go to GCAF and I'm gonna go to CN and I'm gonna go to CONnoBaka and you know what..thats all on a Mcdonalds part time salary so just stop your damn whining and crying and whatnot, because it just shows how weak and pathetic you are and..

I'm really sick of hearing it in every thread. You've tainted yourselves you know. People aren't look at you in the innocent lights anymore. Good work.
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Unread 02-03-2005, 01:49 AM   #8
Amy the Yu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mari Moni
Quality > Quantity
That just about sums it up.

SimiHe - I think you might want to read over your own words. You're bashing a lot of people here, and I think you're the one feeling the need to bash.

And why do I get flamed, yet you don't? Last time I knew, I was living in the same free country, unless Kitchener-Waterloo suddenly decided to seperate and form their own nation...and if that happened, I'm SURE I would have heard something on the news about it.

I'd also like to mention that I DO help at the cons. I've pulled 12-20 hours volunteering at every single Canadian con that I've ever been to, and more than my share of the "grunt" jobs that no one else wanted to do.
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Unread 02-03-2005, 01:53 AM   #9
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Ah yes.......we're all whiny idiots who are scared. That must be it. It has nothing to do with caring about the fan community as a whole....how silly of me.

BTW this thread is not bashing any one particular con so you can get off your goddamn "everybody's being mean to GCAF!!!" soapbox.

Quote:
Uh yeah, the con GCAF should of been the limit I mean why are they all in southern ontario? Oh yeah I forgot..were mini america here..
.....what on earth are you trying to say here?

As for AN being old and therefore there's no need to help out....WTF. So you'd rather have tons of new cons run by people with little to no experience instead of a big con with lots of dealers and events run by people with years of experience??? If something is running for a few years then it becomes 'old' and useless? Anime Expo and Otakon have been running for years, do you consider them 'old' and worthless?

Thank you for your opinions. Next time I suggest actually formulating your statements in coherent sentences and using spellcheck. Good night.
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Unread 02-03-2005, 02:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimiHe

The truth is your all whiny and running scared.As soon as another con comes into the picture you run for the hills screaming OMFG!!!! Our people! Our crowd! What if's and what not's. you know what. NO ONE CARES!

Sad but true, Stop hogging up the forums for your useless whining...boo who AN is understaff, boo who a new con, boo who waaaaaaaaah. You know what, it's abit trieding and I bet your doing ALOT worse then helping, use your brains. AN and CN are old. We can't have those 2 forever, I doubt Mcdonalds or Burger King came out with their restrurants that they fought they were gonna be the only ones on the market.

.

These are all seperate issues.

Let me address some here.

~There is nothing wrong with pointing out that some of the exisiting conventions could use more staff and volunteers to help them continue to run smoothly. It's true and it's relevant. The fact that you are disregarding and mocking these statements just shows your inexperience. Our hobby requires a unified effort by all if it is to remain viable and enjoyable.

(I won't even count CNA here as it's an Expo and primarily not fan run.)

~Nothing lasts forever, (obviously), so well your statement is true in principle, let us just say I don't forsee Anime North ceasing to exist for quite some time. If you're inferring that one or all of these cons have been created to fill a vacuum that you percive Anime North or CNA will leave sometime soon, I commend your enthusiasm but not your reasoning.

You also seem to be under the misconception that other established conventions are somehow threatend by the exsistance of these new conventions. None of them are, after all they have exsisted in harmony with each other for years now.

It's clear that it's you that is intimidated, not the other way around.

You need to get a grip and stop acting like everyone is your enemy.
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Unread 02-03-2005, 02:57 AM   #11
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hmm...hasn't this topic already been talked about to death? O_O;;;

even if there is a thread about how theres too many cons and how some people aren't happy with it--these cons are still gonna happen...so why not just give them a chance, and wait to see what happens?

Theorizing and speculating isn't always correct forecasts of the future...
I just don't see a point in upseting multiple parties multiple times ^_^;; (whether intentionally or unintentionally)

Just my 2 cents. ^_^;
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Unread 02-03-2005, 10:03 AM   #12
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I think that the main problem is that we're creating many cons that are weak in one thing or another instead of making one excelent con. Clearly there are many people who want the same thing (A good quality con) who display leadership skills (shown by trying to put one on). Instead of working seperatly on their own cons, they could all work together on one of the existing convnetions and make it an excelent, well rounded convention.

I see this happening on Ottawa. We had our first anime convention here this year, AC-Cubed. Now that people see that is was a success, people are trying to plan their own independent conventions. Why can't they help with AC-Cubed? They're still desperate for help, and they're still trying to get everything put together to make it a con that can last. It just seems like a waste to start so many when all of them could easily fail and then Ottawa will go back to having no convention again.

I can see where Amy is coming from. I think it's unfair to become so defensive and start to flame people. We all have an opinion.
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Unread 02-03-2005, 11:59 AM   #13
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This discussion has also been tossed about on other boards and on LJ (such as mine from a few days ago for instance - http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo....er=gordon_rose).

I personally feel the discussion is healthy. As long as we keep the emotions out of it.

Nobody is saying that these cons are bad ideas. And everyone certainly ahs the right to vote with their feet and either go or not go as their mood dictates. But the passion displayed in these discussions that may be seen as "bashing" is more that these people are concerned about the impact on the community. It's more a discussion on market dilution and allocation of resources, motiviation and competency of teh convention leadership team, and of economics and scheduling.

Personally, I don't think we need more specialized conventions. Amy the Yu had the right idea with concentrating on what we have already.

Now, let's look at GCAF (which is unfortunately scheduled opposite a bigger costume event in TT) and NAF. Do these fall into the category of "needed"? They are both on the fringe of the Greater Toronto Area (I live in the west end of the west end of the GTA and it takes me about as long to drive to one as to the other). So they potentially serve different markets. Will they draw 1000 or 2000 people? Maybe ... if they're really lucky (but they should count on 2-4 years to make these numbers).

Con No Baka ... needed? I don't think so. IMHO It would have been better if this effort was channelled into an existing event ... or directed toward an untapped market. Like K/W, Northern Ontario (Sudbury/North Bay), etc. Or maybe even to Ottawa to help support AC-Cubed. Why in the GTA? That's where the organizers are. Why a new event instead of helping support the numerous existing events? I have no idea ... ask them.

Ans as for the comment on "old event = disappearing event" ... AN has been around for, what, 8 years? SFX/CNA for about as long. TT for 19. Ad Astra for 24. If these events are truly boring and staid, and not providing what you want ... get involved and get them to change thinigs!

Why does the trend seem to be to hare off and start their own show?

"We could put on our own show! My uncle has a barn, and we could rope off Main Street, and have marching bands..." (Although most of you are too young to remember the Andy Hardy movies and such. )
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Unread 02-03-2005, 12:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuna-X2
I see this happening on Ottawa. We had our first anime convention here this year, AC-Cubed. Now that people see that is was a success, people are trying to plan their own independent conventions. Why can't they help with AC-Cubed? They're still desperate for help, and they're still trying to get everything put together to make it a con that can last. It just seems like a waste to start so many when all of them could easily fail and then Ottawa will go back to having no convention again.
Ottawa has a con now? =O I had no idea (I only hear rumours about it a long time ago), but I'm pretty out of the loop when it comes to other big cities. ^^;;

I'm glad that Ottawa finally has a con going there. It seemed kind of strange to me that it didn't have one before even though I know there's at least a decent sized number of anime fans there and it's pretty accessible to fans living in the surrounding communities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja Sensei
or directed toward an untapped market. Like K/W, Northern Ontario (Sudbury/North Bay), etc.
K-W's pretty damn close to the GTA (only about a 1-2 hour drive depending on where you leave from and what part of the GTA's the destination). We also have an animated cinema festival here annually, although it's not terribly well attended. It's a tiny place, so I can't say that we'd need much more considering there's also a pretty large anime club running out of U of W.

Northern Ontario sure can use a con or two though. Even small ones would probably be well appreciated since the fans from further north always have to travel these terribly unreasonable distances to come to the GTA for conventions and there always seems to be a lot of fans who are willing to travel all the way down for AN and CN. Makes me wonder how many more there are who don't have the resources to come this far for a con (the greater the distance, the greater the cost), but would love to attend one.
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Unread 02-03-2005, 12:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by archangeli
Hobbystar is known for trying to rake in as much money as they can from these venues.. -_-" I am proud to say that I have never "paid" to attend any Hobbystar run convention... hehe. (I've never been to CNA...
Well as long as they put together an ejoyable expo/con, then I think the trade off of money <---> fun is worthwhile.

Anyways...

There are a lot more conventions in the GTA, so I don't have a problem with new ones poping up... they just need to understand that although thinking big is grand, it isn't practicial... expecially when starting up.
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