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Unread 08-26-2005, 04:34 PM   #76
Kaijugal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeto
Last time I stopped by the A-EXPO masquerade board the masquerade director's assistant thought ICG originated in Japan.

Woah -_-" Can you throw me the link for that discussion? @_@
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Unread 08-26-2005, 04:39 PM   #77
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I just took a look at Anime USA's masquerade rules. It is interesting that they still kept a hall cosplay component, but they specifically differentiate it from the Masquerade craftsmanship component (i.e. AUSA's Hall Cosplay has no skill divisions, so its awards do not count toward any standings for purposes of entry into a skill-based competition).
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Unread 08-26-2005, 06:31 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijugal
On another topic I was reading on the ICG list that Kevin Roche and Andy Trombley are giving advice to one of the masqeruade directors of a big comic con, (I THINK SanDiego Comic Con.), Pehraps Change is in the wind everywhere.
Kevin and Andy are two of the nicest and most conscientous experienced ICG Masq. judges I know of. I respect them very, very highly, and there aren't too many people I ever praise gushingly over in public like that.

Oh yeah: AND they are Anime fans / cosplayers.
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Unread 08-26-2005, 07:34 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriol
I forgot to ask. Where can I find a list of ICG-sanctioned cons? I think I'm a least psyched enough to visit one in NY, NJ, CT, MA, or MD.
Arisia's in Boston in January. I know I at least will be in a (Journeyman-level) skit there, and I'm not sure, but I think Sarcasm-hime was considering coming as well last I heard? ^_^
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Unread 08-26-2005, 09:13 PM   #80
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Yeah, I'm trying to get a roadtrip crew together. XD
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Unread 08-28-2005, 09:39 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeto
Ummm yeah, whatever. Peggy Kennedy anyone? For anyone curious about how the ICG developed, this is worth a read:

http://www.towson.edu/~flynn/costume1.htm
This is an interesting read.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeto
I do not allow hall costume contest awards won at AUSA to count for division purposes, because the Guild does not count hall awards for skill placement in the masquerade. Masquerade one venue, hall costume contest another.
So, why does Hall Cosplay still exist? By ICG standards, the masqurade would have presentation and craftsmanship options. There wouldn't be a need for Hall Cosplay.

----------------

I might travel to next year's Balticon just to see what the fuss is all about.
I appreciate the information about ICG cons near my area. Thanks.
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Unread 08-28-2005, 10:22 PM   #82
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So, because I'm trying to figure this out in my head anyway...

I understand about competiting up and entering where you feel your skill level falls. I think the part I am confused about is the "value" of the awards. I have looked back at the list Sarcasm made in post 49 (http://forums.cosplay.com/showpost.p...8&postcount=49) and the blurb at the bottom.

For some reason, my mind says only "Best ~" awards count when determining your skill level (I'm only taking presentation awards into account, since workmanship doesn't count, and now I know why), but I don't know why it's thinking that. So honorable mentions are just honorable mentions, things like, "Most ~" do count as presentation awards that affect the skill level/rank of the costumer? I'm confused because it's also mentioned several times that once you receive an award at a level, you shouldn't compete down, but is that ANY presentation award, or only the ones that 'count' (i.e. the "best ~")?

And say someone skips to enter in Journeyman directly. If they don't win any presentation award, but they do win a workmanship award, they are welcome to enter as a novice at the next ICG masq they enter should they so wish to?
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Unread 08-29-2005, 06:20 AM   #83
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Thanks Saeto! You guys are so knowledgeable, I feel like such a newbie again! ^-^
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Unread 08-29-2005, 10:02 AM   #84
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...wow, have I ever fallen into this discussion late. >_<

For the record, I guess I could be considered a "local master" in the same community as Kaijugal and Sarcasm_hime, though I feel more like an artisan or journeyman in terms of skill level in that group! And IIRC, I have had the honor (?! ^_~) of competing right after Derwin Mak, in my very first Toronto Trek masquerade no less.

By way of contributing to the thread...Saeto, the workmanship judging you described sounds so intense! That would definitely intimidate me, and make me a whole lot more nervous heading onto stage having been subject to that degree of scrutiny first! I too find the rules of promotion in the divisional system a little hard to follow sometimes...this discussion has been extremely interesting to read, hopefully over the next couple of days I will catch up on the whole thing. After hearing some horror stories about the judging situation at masquerades where the ICG guidelines aren't used in any way, it's encouraging to know that the word is spreading and the community at large is that much more aware.
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Unread 08-29-2005, 10:49 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeto
Masquerade workmanship judges can be brutal, especially at ICG cons. The lady who judged my Alucard costume at Balti was pulling on various parts of my costume to see how "consistent" my hand-stitching was, wanted to know if 3 different shades and types of velvet accurately matched the silhouette and drape in my costume, and plowed through 5+ pages of typed notes detailing how the costume was made. At one point, Alucard's vest was flipped way up my stomach while I was wearing it so she could look up close at the applique stitches. When Marty has judged my Kaiba armor, he wanted to hear how many geometric planes the dragon head has, and when he looked at Leon, my hand-stitching was 4 inches up close to his face as he examined the sewing.
My goodness! They actually pull on the costume? Talk about testing for sound structural integrity. I can understand interrogating the costumer for information, but stress testing the outfit is something I have never heard about before.

That means people cannot take shortcuts or hide imperfections in the inside of their costume in craftsmanship judging. That type of stuff would get ferreted out upon a judge's scrutiny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeto
Since you are curious about Balticon, you may want to check out:

http://www.dotphoto.com/GuestViewIma...&ICT=72&IPP=24

You will have to view these as a slide show - they're photos from the masquerade.

I'm also gonna add that seeing photos of these costumes online only goes so far; some of these costumes might not look that impressive from the pics, but if you saw the top stitching and hand tailoring on some of them in person, it would blow your mind.
You've already warned me about the photos not showing everything about the costume. I have a better appreciation for craftsmanship judging.
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Last edited by Eriol : 08-29-2005 at 02:26 PM. Reason: Fix grammar
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Unread 08-29-2005, 11:53 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcasm-hime
Yeah, I'm trying to get a roadtrip crew together. XD

Yeah, she's twisting my rubber arm. XD. The only thing that will keep me from attending is work, otherwise I'm a road trippin'" XD


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriol

So, why does Hall Cosplay still exist? By ICG standards, the masqurade would have presentation and craftsmanship options. There wouldn't be a need for Hall Cosplay.
.
Do you mean the Hall Costume Awards or were you refering to another type of event at anime cons specifically called Hall Cosplay? If you meant he former, I'll reply. ^_^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oselle
...wow, have I ever fallen into this discussion late. >_<

For the record, I guess I could be considered a "local master" in the same community as Kaijugal and Sarcasm_hime, though I feel more like an artisan or journeyman in terms of skill level in that group! And IIRC, I have had the honor (?! ^_~) of competing right after Derwin Mak, in my very first Toronto Trek masquerade no less.
Hehehe. Not "considered", you are, No Escape! MUHAHAHA! ( Don't let her fool you. She is talented and wily, and a tough cookie to beat presentation wise. Oselle is also half of the infamous Men in Tights duo and of the always packed "Dance While No One is Watching" Class.
^_^ (Not to mention a hot mama, particularly in green , hee hee, but that might be my personal bias towards godzilllaness talking... XD)
Also she was my ubber competent and wonderful, keep me from going crazy, assistant Masquerade Director this weekend at the expo, soooooo, she is tres talented as well as humble. ^_^ Hee. )
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Last edited by Kaijugal : 08-29-2005 at 01:18 PM.
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Unread 08-29-2005, 12:42 PM   #87
Koumori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriol
My goodness! They actually pull on the costume? Talk about testing for sound structural integrity. I can understand interrogating the costumer for information, but stress testing the outfit is something I have never heard about before.

That means people cannot take shortcuts or hide imperfections in the inside of costume in craftsmanship judging. That type of stuff would get ferreted out upon a judge's scrutiny.
Bear in mind that that does depend on the judge. Not everybody is going to pull on things or turn your costume inside out (and at least one anime judging panel I've been on *did* do that kind of thing). That said, however - yes, when they say workmanship they mean workmanship!
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Unread 08-29-2005, 02:51 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijugal
Do you mean the Hall Costume Awards or were you refering to another type of event at anime cons specifically called Hall Cosplay? If you meant he former, I'll reply. ^_^
Kaijugal,
At many anime conventions, there are two cosplay events: Masquerade and Hall Cosplay.

Masquerade is divided into craftsmanship and performance/presentation categories [more often, it's about how funny or dramatic the skit is (performance) than how the costume looks or is presented on stage (presentation)]. Some anime cons have skill divisions in these two categories. Because of the way some anime masquerades are structured, there doesn't seem to be a way to choose one of the categories of this event. If you enter an anime masquerade, you will be judged in both categories automatically. This contrasts with an ICG masquerade --if I understand this correctly-- where you can choose to enter the presentation segment only, the craftsmanship segment only, or both.

----------------------

The typical Hall Cosplay is an event that is held separate of the Masquerade. People who don't want to be on stage for whatever reason but who want their costume evaluated up close enter this event. This is a craftsmanship event. This is closest thing to the craftsmanship contest component of an ICG masquerade.

There is another contest sometimes held at anime conventions in addition or in lieu of the above Hall Cosplay -- sometimes this event is also Hall Cosplay or Hall Costume, confusing people when they try to describe it (like me doing so right now). It has 2 variants of this I have observed:

Variation 1: The con staff walk the halls and give "blue-ribbon" awards to people whose costumes look good in the halls, on the spot. There isn't any craftsmanship judging.

Variation 2: Entrants go to a booth and get their picture taken by the staff (usually a polaroid). After the entry deadline passes, the staff pick winners, and the attendees are asked to pick winners via a ballot box. There also isn't any craftsmanship judging.

-----------------

Therefore, based on what I have learned from you all so far, at an ICG con, there is one masquerade, and it has presentation and craftmanship components. The craftsmanship awards are generally not counted for masquerade ranking.

Anime cons have a Masquerade and a Hall Cosplay, and I find this Hall Cosplay contest redundant, when compared to ICG Masquerade structure. (That's why I asked Saeto about this, and she explained why she kept Anime USA's Hall Cosplay.)

-----------------

I am not sure what the Hall Costume Awards means to you, Kaijugal, so please clarify.
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Last edited by Eriol : 08-29-2005 at 02:59 PM.
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Unread 08-29-2005, 03:38 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriol
Kaijugal,

Variation 1: The con staff walk the halls and give "blue-ribbon" awards to people whose costumes look good in the halls, on the spot. There isn't any craftsmanship judging.

I am not sure what the Hall Costume Awards means to you, Kaijugal, so please clarify.
We use what you refer to as "Variation 1" here. The only stipulation being that the person to be awarded is not wearing the same costume in the masquerade the same weekend. The judges approact the person, compliment/comment on thier costume, ask if they are entering it in the masquerade. If they are not, they award them with the Hall Costume Ribbon.

The resons for this aspect are obvious.
  • To give people too shy to go on stage a chance to be recognized
  • to bring more colour and fun to the convention in general
  • to give people a reason to wear old competition costumes again
  • to make new attendees aware of costuming programming/garner interest in the events

It works well in tandem with a regular ICG masquerade.
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Unread 08-29-2005, 04:56 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeto
Ditto. You and I are both experienced costumers and I get all fluttery whenever I go before an ICG judge.
ICG judges do make me a little more nervous than most, but unfortunately for some reason I turn into a blithering idiot every time I get judged for craftsmanship, regardless of who is doing the judging, what con it is, or whatever. A big part of the reason I started typing up extensive documentation for my costumes is that I know that every time I get in front of the craftsmanship judges, sure as the sun shining, my brain will switch off and I'll start babbling and forget everything important that I intended to say. So my documentation has to do most of the explaining for me, because I sure can't be trusted to do so myself. (It's rather annoying, really...)

I have also had my seams examined by anime con judges, though, so it does happen. I was surprised the first time someone looked that closely, but I actually found it rather flattering, inasmuch as it proved that they really were looking very seriously at my work. And after all that slaving I had done, although I did have a few qualms that they might notice some flaws up close, that was outweighed by the fact that I felt like all the effort I'd put in was being understood and appreciated far more than if I'd been looked at from a distance.
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