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Unread 06-04-2007, 02:17 PM   #4516
amazingfly
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Totally, The US is not a comunist country(you get according to what you need, if it worked right that would be kinda nice) its a free-market society, you get according to what you produce. aka an idiot has a bad job because he cant produce as well as others. you dont need to be a genius to work hard though, it might help.

So if in school nobody looses that sounds communist to me, and communism doesn't work obviosly. You cant expect to get anything if you dont do anything well.

Compitition almost always makes people work harder, wich means better or more stuff is made. If there was no compitition why would you try so hard?
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Last edited by amazingfly : 06-04-2007 at 02:19 PM.
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Unread 06-04-2007, 02:49 PM   #4517
Runi-Chan
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As far as I can remember, the rules are, in hall/Masquerade contests, that you have constructed most of your costume yourself, and things like shoes and wigs can be bought.
Now, I'm not terribly sure about comissioned wigs, but the beautiful thing about a hobbyist community is the COMMUNITY part. If you're a fantastic seamstress, but not the best wig-styler, and you happen to have a friend who does brilliant things with wigs, why not ask your friend for help? Just make sure if you enter it in the Masquerade, you make it clear that you had help with that aspect of the costume.

As for the whole competition angle; I never expect Best In Show to go to anything below Journeyman, barring an outstanding entry in costume construction and presentation that comes in novice and leaves Craftsman. Why?
Because Novice is often where most of the folks who have never participated in a masquerade before (duh). Therefore, that means that the folks who know little to nothing about how to present themselves and their costumes on stage flood that category and are often the same sort of sketch.
Not to say that novice means you don't have experience on stage or sewing or anything; you have full choice to decide where you want to be placed when you sign up for the Masquerade or for a Hall Contest. Myself and my friends choose to stay in novice for the time being because of our own opinions of our sewing skills, and a bit of our presentation skills. Even so, it's not like we could automatically say that we wanted to be Journeyman because our "presentation skillz are teh shizz"

Competition is TO DECIDE WHO IS BEST. If there's a half-done Naruto a random skit, and a fully-done Time Jump Naruto with just a walk-on presentation, methinks I know who the judges are going to pick.

And honestly, why consider someone an award hog? If they have that many awards, then whoever was judging those particular contests believed they had the best costume. It's a subjective thing; what the judges see and think and know about the costume may be entirely different than what the audience knows. (Barring a bias against the series that unfairly affects an entrant because one or several of the judges likes/does not like a certain series)

Last edited by Runi-Chan : 06-04-2007 at 02:53 PM.
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Unread 06-04-2007, 05:26 PM   #4518
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Skill divisions exist for a reason. We will be implementing them at Ikkicon 3, given we will finally be of a size to justify them. At that point, no one will be able to justifiably complain about competing against more experienced cosplayers.

And yes, quite often the judges are far more qualified to decide who wins what award than the audience. This is not always the case, as I have been to and participated in many masquerades where the qualifications of the judges were highly questionable.

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Unread 06-04-2007, 05:29 PM   #4519
HanakoWings
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Looking decent in a costume but then looking so shitty on camera because of lighting, makeup issues or just standing in the wrong angle. XD.
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Unread 06-04-2007, 08:16 PM   #4520
Cadmium Polyphony
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amazingfly View Post
Totally, The US is not a comunist country(you get according to what you need, if it worked right that would be kinda nice) its a free-market society, you get according to what you produce. aka an idiot has a bad job because he cant produce as well as others. you dont need to be a genius to work hard though, it might help.

So if in school nobody looses that sounds communist to me, and communism doesn't work obviosly. You cant expect to get anything if you dont do anything well.
Did somebody say communist?
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Unread 06-04-2007, 08:33 PM   #4521
Tikki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurouni_Ina_Box View Post
And honestly, why consider someone an award hog? If they have that many awards, then whoever was judging those particular contests believed they had the best costume. It's a subjective thing; what the judges see and think and know about the costume may be entirely different than what the audience knows.
Also keep in mind that if someone goes to a lot of competitions in a year and is really successful, it's highly unlikely that he/she deals with the same sets of judges. So winning at different cons speaks a lot for the skill shown making and presenting a costume.
Another fuss I hear a lot is when other competitors know that a judge is friends with people competing. There's always catty talk afterwards about nepotism, giving undeserved awards to friend, etc. Funny thing is, the judges I've dealt with in these situations backstage are actually pretty harsh on their friends. The judges point out when their buds are doing a half-assed job or not, because they KNOW them. Yes, there are times when judges don't keep that appropriate separation between judge and fellow cosplayer, but it happens less than some people realize. A lot of experienced cosplayers know each other just from being at cons and socializing over time. It's really hard to find a GOOD cosplayer for judging who doesn't know a lot of people... *sighs*
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Unread 06-04-2007, 09:08 PM   #4522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HanakoWings View Post
Looking decent in a costume but then looking so shitty on camera because of lighting, makeup issues or just standing in the wrong angle. XD.
Story of my life =P
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Unread 06-04-2007, 10:38 PM   #4523
Envel
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I love you, Rurouni, Danzikumaru, and Tikki. ^_~

I know there have been plenty of times when I heard complaints from cons I did not attend about who won the contest. I looked at a picture of the winner, (I will not say what con) of "Best in Show Craftsmanship", and honestly, I cocked an eyebrow. "Not that that costume is bad... But Best in Show Craftsmanship?" Then I found the gallery of the rest of the entries. THEN I understood completely why the judge/s made the decision they did. Out of what they were presented with, that costume was, in fact, the best crafted out of all of them, even if it was somewhat lacking with some cosplays I've seen that are of the same character.

There have been plenty of times when people complain about "that costume winning that award" and such-and-such, but they honestly need to get a CLOSER look of the ENTIRE competition before they say anything. I may not agree that a costume is "Best of... Whatever" but when I compare it to the other entries they're against, then I will see why the judges made the decisions that they did. 90% of the masquerade audience doesn't see the costumes up close and personal as the judges do.

So I guess this peeve is: People who complain about certain entries winning awards because they've seen the same character done "better" at another con. Well, guess what? That "better" cosplayer isn't at THAT particular competition. Some people just don't seem to understand that. : /
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Unread 06-04-2007, 10:54 PM   #4524
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On the subject of contest complaints, it seems that often times, these ppl who are complaining are, well, (im trying to say this nicely...) ignorant to how little they know. They base their complaints off of things like which costume they feel is harder to make or (gawd...i hate this one...) which characters they like better -_-. You know, there is a good reason why these ppl arent up there judging. Theyre not qualified to! I know that there is so (soo SOOO) much about sewing and costume craftsmanship that I dont know. I may see costumes that I think are great or well made, and honestly, most of the time every one of the costumes I see in cosplay contest are well made. But I am in no way, shape or form capable of properly judging on craftmanship, and I wish some of these ppl who are just as unqualified as myself would stop complaining.
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Unread 06-04-2007, 11:46 PM   #4525
Envel
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You're very right, Neko-Chan. A LOT of those people are ignorant to how little they know. But what's even more sad is more than likely, most of them are ignorant to the actual meaning of the word.

I've only ever had one instance where a judged was biased as to what character you were dressed as, but it was the same convention where a girl was disqualified for winning Best in Show the year prior. *Shrugs.* Other than the biases and stupid disqualification, it was the best judging I've ever had. Getting out of the chair to inspect things close, inquiring as to how every little bit was made, asking what piece was the hardest, etc. etc. I've had only that one experience where the judging was so in depth. (Of course, it seemed as though the judging itself didn't matter, after seeing how they treated some of their contestants.)

One thing I really hate is when a costume is judged by "How hard was this to make?" Who's to say how "hard" it was? How difficult a costume was to make shouldn't even be considered. What matters is the end results. Sure, maybe that one costume was "hard" to make, but does it look as well done as a costume that wasn't as difficult? I've known most judges to pick well done, flawless simple costumes over elaborate ones that were half-assed or not done as well as they could have been.
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Unread 06-05-2007, 12:25 AM   #4526
Tikki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight Clover View Post
There have been plenty of times when people complain about "that costume winning that award" and such-and-such, but they honestly need to get a CLOSER look of the ENTIRE competition before they say anything. I may not agree that a costume is "Best of... Whatever" but when I compare it to the other entries they're against, then I will see why the judges made the decisions that they did. 90% of the masquerade audience doesn't see the costumes up close and personal as the judges do.
Oh, I do the same. But having the benefit of running a masquerade and hall contest simulatneously the past few years at AMA, I've seen the gambit of costume quality in competitions. We get a couple repeated cosplay groups, but no massive projects that some people put together for big events like Otakon or Katsucon. Or Expo, if you're out West. (Sorry! I just don't travel out of the Mid-Atlantic for cons anymore!) Some years there's a handful of really NICE costumes, and other times there's costumes that are just... sorta better than the rest. And for the judges, sometimes we get a division of two competitors... and it feels like a mental coin toss to pick the better entry, or one just blows away the other person completely. It's odd... But it doesn't make our job any easier. That's one reason I take pictures of every entry. The last two years of AMA Hall and Masquerade are in my cosplay.com folders, with the winners labeled. And there are a few looking back that I would go, "Hmm, really?" but having sat in on the deliberations to fill in certificates and whatnot, a lot of thought still goes into every award, even if the costumes aren't the greatest sometimes. They were still the top of the entries for that day or night and I trust the people I've selected as judges to do their best.

As far as bad judging experience I've had myself, only one really. I wore one of my favorite costumes to a convention a while back and decided to enter the costume on a whim. It was a sexy costume, but very well constructed. But I should have just dropped out after my experience with the judges, because only one judge actually looked at my costume or even made eye contact. I stood there with my reference images talking about my costume because they asked me absolutely NOTHING. Just silence as the other two found their fingernails and shoes extremely fascinating... I also watched the very same judges that wouldn't speak to me get all friendly with other entries, then brush off a lot entries in less than a minute to go get their picture taken. It's times like that I wish I could go up and demand to know their qualifications. How could they be so rude to so many competitors? In then end, half the awards were for random things and a lot of other REALLY good costumes got left in the cold. But I firmly believe in taking something positive out of any bad experience. That event was one prime example on how NOT to run a masquerade and what sort of people to avoid for judging.
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Unread 06-05-2007, 09:18 AM   #4527
Runi-Chan
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Tikki- random question, but was that a big con that happened at? I know at Otakon the judging experiece is often limited to a once over of the reference material, and then a visual once over of the costumes themselves, or the props, etc..Bigger cons seem to be the ones in my opinion that are staffed with judges loathe to get up and inspect costumes.
Yes, I know it's a lot of people. Yes, not all of the costumes are going to be fantastic. But every entrant put some sort of effort into their costume, and would love for the judges to show interest.

And someone said something about "Award hogs" going to more cons; some people can only get to a few conventions a year (like me), and others can afford to go to five or six, or maybe even more, so if they enter every time, of course they'll get more experience and have more of a chance to win. They've expanded their odds to win by entering their costumes in more than one competition. I know I usually try to enter a hall contest and the Masquerade (with two different costumes), but that's my own personal preference.

It's funny that we're all in agreement over the Craftsmanship judges, because of course they can see the costume up close and see different things than the audience does. The real contention seems to actually be with the performance judges; after all, the audience and the Performance judges see the exact same thing unless there was some previous time where all the skits performed and were judged (which I doubt)

I have a peeve with people who think making friends with the judges will give them an advantage. If a Masq/Hall Contest Judge is a close friend of yours, they'll probably be even harder on you than they'd be on someone else, because they know what you're capable of.

...I wish I could help run a Masquerade/help judge one sometime soon, but I personally feel that I should be at least coming up on Craftsmanship level to accurately judge other folks. (I'm still lingering down here at novice, wah. ^.^)

Last edited by Runi-Chan : 06-05-2007 at 09:30 AM.
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Unread 06-05-2007, 09:30 AM   #4528
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They should run mascarade judging like reality tv. Have the judges like 1 insults everyone one likes everyone then I donno(I dont watch much rality tv) but I think that would be more fun. They should also like record it and broadcast it on like a CCTV system all over the con. Err I guess that realy had nothing to do with the thread though...
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Unread 06-05-2007, 01:05 PM   #4529
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my only petpeeve is that this year i attended my first convention and i was walking toward the photoshot, i over heard one of the girl in the photoshot who was dress as the same character as me (we where both the only sailor mercury) saying "back off I'm the real deal eventhough you have the blue hair" to her friend (she didnt have blue hair/wig, but i did).

I mean way to go to make someone feel welcome. I stood there and took a few pictures with the whole group and then left. Wasnt a good way to start the day.

So what if someone else is dress the same as you, the worse you can do is compliment about their costume and the way they protrait the character...if you cant do that, dont say anything at all.
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Unread 06-05-2007, 01:28 PM   #4530
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Yea, its kinda natural though. She automaticly considered you compitition and wanted hers to be better. Personally I don't realy have that reaction. I would ask how or why they did somthing different than me and see if I could improve or change it on mine later.
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AFO 07 (inuyasha) not going again it sucked
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